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Study shows massive insect loss

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#171

Post by roryisok »

AstralStorm wrote: post #148
roryisok wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been through several cycles of climate related depression this year, I just want to reach out to fellow HNers and say it's not the end of the world. Our society, and our civilisation is going to change, in massive ways in the coming century, one way or another. And all of us are going to live in less luxury than we do now - simply because such luxury is unsustainable. But it doesn't mean or children…

How do you know at least some of our children are not going to starve, or worse, be forced into warfare over crucial resources? I'd like that crystal ball you have. Blind optimism is still blind. Facts are not on our side. 50s optimism and status quo dropped us into most of the current problems. (combined with population boom which has now ended) The trends as they are now are not reassuring and there seems to be no…

> How do you know at least some of our children are not going to starve, or worse, be forced into warfare over crucial resources?

Of course I can't know that, I have no crystal ball. I'm saying that assuming that we're all doomed is as bad as assuming everything is fine and denying the problem.

> 50s optimism and status quo dropped us into most of the current problems.

I wasn't advocating 50s optimism but rather saying it's an extreme and we've swung to the other extreme, at least on HN. I'm not optimistic about the future but I'm not fatally pessimistic about it either, at least not anymore. Reading comments here is a good way to trigger that fatal pessimism, make you want to quit your job, buy a gun and go live up a mountain.

> It is all fixable but the upheaval is likely going to be massive. We have no idea which form.

Exactly my point. There will be upheaval. We have no idea. And it won't be a magical fun time. But it might not be a hellish nightmare apocalypse either. Just bear that in mind, comment readers. Don't fall into despair about the future.

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#172

Post by roryisok »

LifeLiverTransp wrote: post #166
roryisok wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been through several cycles of climate related depression this year, I just want to reach out to fellow HNers and say it's not the end of the world. Our society, and our civilisation is going to change, in massive ways in the coming century, one way or another. And all of us are going to live in less luxury than we do now - simply because such luxury is unsustainable. But it doesn't mean or children…

Somewhere between some layers of bedrock, is a old dinosaur and a young dinosaur: "Dont you worry, young one, its not so bad. Look up there- a shooting star, now make a wish, while it lasts-" "I want life to never change-"

Should mummy dinosaur have immediately drowned him in tar just in case?

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#173

Post by njarboe »

saiya-jin wrote: post #112
njarboe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the three year California drought and not watering the lawn much during it, I just let the grass and wild flowers grow up without mowing the last few years. Lots of different kind of plants, many bees, etc. Pretty cool, although some people comment on how we have let the yard go. I wish I could do a controlled burn at the start of the rainy season. On the other hand, I recently learned what a carpenter bee is a…

What exactly do you mean by controlled burn? If it is what I think it is, you will kill many insects that call that lawn their home. Not really good for anything (plus the risk of burning down the neighborhood)

Of course burning my front lawn would never be allowed and I understand the reasons for that but ever since humans arrived (15,000 years or so ago) California grasslands would burn quite often. The "native" ecosystem was adapted to it and I think it would be fun to see what a few years of buring would do to the biological diversity of my little bit of grassland.

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#174

Post by kbenson »

arghwhat wrote: post #122
moosey wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had two daughters before I came to the conclusion that this is the most likely path for humanity at this point. There is a possibility of a global awakening that might prevent this tragic loss of megafauna. But I'm already a vegan and don't drive much; can't think of more to do, and while I'm not too bad at dealing with this, it can be quite depressing.

That's barely the tip of the iceberg of what to do. Public transportation or bicycling, avoiding one-time non-consumable items (one-time plates, forks, cups, cup-lids, straws, etc. are an absolute no-go—which means boycutting starbucks and similar if necessary), recycling, rallying against use of polluting materials (less polypropylene and soft plastic packaging in super-markets, for example), less materialistic impo…

> avoiding one-time non-consumable items (one-time plates, forks, cups, cup-lids, straws, etc. are an absolute no-go—which means boycutting starbucks and similar if necessary)

Starbucks gets a lot of flack, from a lot of directions, but it's worth noting that companies go that could contribute a lot to this problem, they do a lot to promote better usage patterns. For example, you can bring your own cup to get filled at Starbucks, instead of using one of their cups (which uses recycled content).[1]

> And even more importantly, getting others to do the same.

And that's the reason I'm commenting. Really, I could care less whether people go to Starbucks. I'm there once a month or two (but I do gets treats for the kids there about once a week). But if we are supposed to be willing to change our behavior to make a difference, we should definitely be willing to look into whether a company is trying to do something good for the environment before denigrating them as a problem with regard to the environment.

If a company is taking steps in the right direction, we should call that out as a positive example, to encourage them to do more and others to follow in their example. Ignoring their positive actions, or worse, using them as a negative example, will not encourage positive behavior on their part.

1: https://www.starbucks.com/responsibility/environment/cups-an...

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#175

Post by y0ghur7_xxx »

lolsal wrote: post #146
y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm already a vegan and don't drive much Since 71% of pollution is coming from 100 companies[1] I don't think that you can stop global warming by being vegan or driving less. Blaming us single individuals is easy, but we a are not directly responsible for this. The most we can do is stop buying stuff from these polluting companies. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10...

> Blaming us single individuals is easy, but we a are not directly responsible for this Companies are comprised of people. Governments are comprised of people. We absolutely are responsible and we have the power to do something about it. Stop being so passive and dismissive, if you care.

>> Blaming us single individuals is easy, but we a are not directly responsible for this

> Companies are comprised of people. Governments are comprised of people. We absolutely are responsible and we have the power to do something about it. Stop being so passive and dismissive, if you care.

So what do you suggest? Blow those 100 companies up with TNT?

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#176

Post by GlenTheMachine »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #170
GlenTheMachine wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't slow, by evolutionary standards. The bugs are trying to adapt to a changing, rapidly increasing temperature.

I'm willing to bet that the necessary genes already exist in the population, since the bugs already handle daily temperature swings that are much larger than the increases from climate change. Given that, a few dozen generations is plenty. And insect generations are for the most part quite short.

Then why are the insects all dying? If this is true, the populations should be rebounding. They aren't.

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#177

Post by Baeocystin »

bsdetector wrote: post #75
carlesfe wrote: post #10

Years ago, my family used to drive to our grandparents' village in hot, summer Friday nights. The windshield ended so pestered with dead bugs that the first task on Saturday morning was to drive the car to the river to clean it. I remember it vividly because it was so fun to wash the car with the cold river water. Last August I went stargazing with my wife. We chose a secluded area because it was far away from light…

> and only a few bugs died on my windshield. Smoother airflow around the windshield means fewer bugs smashing into it and more glancing hits that don't leave a mess. Traditional hard edged cars like Jeep Wrangler seem to get a lot of bugs on the windshield (based on brief Googling), so while there may be fewer insects I'd wager to guess aerodynamics is large factor.

If I look at pictures of my Westie camper van back in the mid-90's, the amount of bug splatter across the front from a few hours' drive is huge. It practically looks like a different shade of tan at a distance.

Same route, same drive 20 years on, and the grille is virtually clean.

Anecdata, I know, but it absolutely is something I've noticed, and the aero didn't change.

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#178

Post by moosey »

roryisok wrote: post #131
moosey wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had two daughters before I came to the conclusion that this is the most likely path for humanity at this point. There is a possibility of a global awakening that might prevent this tragic loss of megafauna. But I'm already a vegan and don't drive much; can't think of more to do, and while I'm not too bad at dealing with this, it can be quite depressing.

As someone who's been through several cycles of climate related depression this year, I just want to reach out to fellow HNers and say it's not the end of the world. Our society, and our civilisation is going to change, in massive ways in the coming century, one way or another. And all of us are going to live in less luxury than we do now - simply because such luxury is unsustainable. But it doesn't mean or children…

I read the book 'World War Z', and at the risk of ruining the book for someone, there was a statement near the end that really stuck with me. Some guy was reflecting on how they'd won, and he said 'Tell that to the whales', paraphrasing.

I cannot deal with the guilt of the loss of megafauna. I just can't. If justice only includes humanity, then it isn't justice. I feel as if I've reached this place using sound ethical logic, and I'm culpable for what we are doing to this planet. We are bacteria in a petri dish.

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#179

Post by undersuit »

CptFribble wrote: post #98

At what point does the cost of continuing the status quo outweigh changing it? How do you even measure something like that, when the people in charge of making changes won't live to see them? I think a major problem humanity has, among many others, is the way we assign leadership roles. Leadership of major institutions should be balanced not just among gender, but also among age. Every government should include decis…

I don't see how making us have more diverse set of leaders will make things better. There are plenty of people under 40 I don't want making decisions and there are plenty of people over 40 I do want making decisions.

Diversity isn't going to make good leaders, it's going to give us diverse leaders.

Re: Study shows massive insect loss

#180

Post by erikpukinskis »

fzeroracer wrote: post #73
14 wrote: post #15

My dad claims that the bugs come and go in cycles and says he has seen so several times over his life. He believes that we are just in a period of low bug population and that at any time there could and will be a population explosion. Personally I am not so optimistic. My dad moved around multiple times over his life and I would suspect different areas would naturally have varying bug densities and that is why he fel…

I'm starting to feel like this is the common trend when you bring up arguments of potentially how disastrous our effects on the environment have been. Bugs? They come and go in cycles. Climate? Again, cycles. I suppose next we'll see claims that the rising ocean is just the cycle of the ocean and it'll fall back down any day now.

It’s the perfect response because it’s technically correct.

We’re not going anywhere the Earth hasn’t already been. It’s just a question of whether we’ll like the Cretaceous.

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