MongoDB switches up its open source license • Hacker News Board

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#101

Post by saurik » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

holografix wrote: post #98

Is there an OSS license where it won’t allow other providers to offer the original technology as a service and charge for it? If I want to use MongoDB in my ecommerce app no worries. If I want to simply use MongoDB offer some minimal improvement or added functionality, call it ZongoDB and sell subscriptions... not so fine?

(With the caveat that I think what really matters here is "and hoard changes and updates", not "make money at all":) The AGPL comes to mind, but I bet that is slightly too viral? It is a hard problem: how do you legally differentiate a web app built on top of MongoDB from a thin wrapper for MongoDB that provides a minority different API from the backend (or might even simply be a load balancer)?

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#102

Post by algorithmmonkey » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

super3 wrote: post #64

What really should happen is that the large cloud companies (really just Google, Amazon, and Azure) should be providing a portion of the revenue generated to the open source projects. The open source companies would make more features and drive more usage. Everybody wins. It makes no sense that the large cloud providers make billions off OSS, and don't give something more sustainable back. Classic tragedy of the comm…

Isn't this the point of licensing?

The author or company building the software requires money in exchange for using their software. The revenue acquired through the license is then use to pay for additional development.

Revenue sharing seems to imply some kindness / goodwill agreement.

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#103

Post by perlgeek » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

holografix wrote: post #98

Is there an OSS license where it won’t allow other providers to offer the original technology as a service and charge for it? If I want to use MongoDB in my ecommerce app no worries. If I want to simply use MongoDB offer some minimal improvement or added functionality, call it ZongoDB and sell subscriptions... not so fine?

> Is there an OSS license where it won’t allow other providers to offer the original technology as a service and charge for it?

No. Open Source always implies freedom to use for any purpose. There might strings attached such as the need to open-source modifications as well, but if usage itself isn't free, it's not Open Source.

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#104

Post by mattl » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:41 PM UTC

holografix wrote: post #98

Is there an OSS license where it won’t allow other providers to offer the original technology as a service and charge for it? If I want to use MongoDB in my ecommerce app no worries. If I want to simply use MongoDB offer some minimal improvement or added functionality, call it ZongoDB and sell subscriptions... not so fine?

No. Restricting commercial usage or selling it is against the ethos of free and open source licenses. The Open Source Definition has a rule stating a license must not discriminate on fields of endeavor and the FSF has been pro-selling free software since its inception (it's how RMS made money in the early days of GNU and how the FSF funded itself for a long time)

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#105

Post by swozey » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:41 PM UTC

super3 wrote: post #64

What really should happen is that the large cloud companies (really just Google, Amazon, and Azure) should be providing a portion of the revenue generated to the open source projects. The open source companies would make more features and drive more usage. Everybody wins. It makes no sense that the large cloud providers make billions off OSS, and don't give something more sustainable back. Classic tragedy of the comm…

Your 3 examples have a LOT of swes that work full time on open source/cncf projects not to mention they're platinum members of CNCF/Linux Foundation, etc. So I think that's a bit disingenuous. They're not funnelling billions into those tunnels but a huge majority of contributors are Redhat, Google, Coreos, Huawei, Alibaba, Intel and various other big names that definitely use open source tech and provide a huge benefit to us that are consuming it. K8s is moving so fast it's hard to even follow.

Kubernetes was donated to CNCF and there are a lot of Google SWEs working on "removing Google" from the actual project to make it more cloud native.

I really have a hard time picturing the success of CNCF/etc without the big names.

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#106

Post by ricopags » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:41 PM UTC

super3 wrote: post #64

What really should happen is that the large cloud companies (really just Google, Amazon, and Azure) should be providing a portion of the revenue generated to the open source projects. The open source companies would make more features and drive more usage. Everybody wins. It makes no sense that the large cloud providers make billions off OSS, and don't give something more sustainable back. Classic tragedy of the comm…

I'm looking forward to trialing the Storj product. Did you use something like http://outwork.com to setup the deal? How does a partnership like that formulate?

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#107

Post by DannyBee » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

FWIW: This license is almost certainly incompatible with GPLv3.

They struck the portion of section 13 that allowed for such combinations.

(You can see it in the redline they published here:https://webassets.mongodb.com/_com_assets/legal/SSPL-compare...)

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#108

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

mrkurt wrote: post #33

(Context: I worked on Compose/MongoHQ for a very long time. We were the first to monetize MongoDB) I'm sure people will get riled up about this, but it makes sense. Building a business on an OSS database in a world of behemoth cloud providers is really hard. It's clear Google and Amazon (and maybe even Azure) are comfy taking OSS work, doing a ton of proprietary development on it, and leaving the companies who did al…

[deleted]

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#109

Post by mattl » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

zokier wrote: post #25

The license is clearly based on (A)GPL which is copyrighted by FSF, and has the following notice: "Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed." Does that mean that MongoDB is now infringing on FSF copyright of the license text itself?

FSF has historically let others make new licenses based on its own as long as they name it in a way that is not likely to be confused with any of the GNU licenses.

Re: MongoDB switches up its open source license

#110

Post by nepeckman » Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 4:45 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #43

I hope OSI and the FSF don’t approve their new “SSPL” license. AGPL style licenses impose restrictions on usage, thus violating freedom 0 in the Free Software’s definition or Open Source’s rule 6. AGPL should have never been allowed, precisely because it opens the door for commercial entities to eat their cake and have it too, being the kind of license that can be effectively used to disallow commercial products buil…

Completely disagree. How does AGPL interfere with your ability to run a program? I can clone any AGPL software and run it for whatever purposes I want. It also doesn't discriminate against any field of endeavor. I can run AGPL software and charge for it. "Distribution" has changed since 1991 and AGPL extends the viral qualities of GPL to apply to internet services, which is a Good Thing for free software.