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The story of Augur, an Ethereum prediction market

decryptmedia.com

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: The story of Augur, an Ethereum prediction market

#21

Genuine question, why is this called a "prediction market" and not just a gambling exchange? As far as I can tell, this is no different from BetFair et al who let punters bet against each other on the outcome of the next football match? (apart from "oooh! blockchain!" and "oooh! decentralised!") I've read a lot of articles about this over the years and seen lots of lofty words about how this will change X/the world f…

Some gambling (e.g poker, blackjack, roulette) doesn't give predictions about the real world.

Prediction markets are a specific form of gambling that yields predictions about the real world. So all prediction markets are gambling, but not all gambling is a prediction market. One noteable difference between 'prediction markets' and the normal operation of bookies is who sets the prices. Usually, bookies offers odds on a bet, and for every new bet, they can set new odds taking the previous bets into account. This is called 'fixed-odds' betting.

In 'prediction markets' people on all sides of a bet put money into a pool. Suppose the total pool has a value of $Z, you put in $X on outcome A, and in total people put $Y on outcome A, then if outcome A is the true outcome, you get $ Z * (X / Y) for your bet. This is called parimutuel betting.

Beyond parimutuel betting, the idea is that once the pool is fixed, you can sell your bet. So in the above scenario, I could sell my X/Y share in outcome A to someone else. Later, the price of such shares allow us to track the markets opinion on changing odds.

In reality, I think they tend to skip the parimutuel part, and instead just auction of an equal amount of shares for each outcome. The proceeds of this initial auction then become the shared pool.

Re: The story of Augur, an Ethereum prediction market

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article, like most other crypto related posts is a thinly veiled ad. Anyone who just focuses on how the price graph for something moves isn't worth listening to.

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/augur

My new place to look for ICO market data https://www.trackico.io/ico/augur/#market

Re: The story of Augur, an Ethereum prediction market

#23
post #12

I sat through some early presentations of Augur at the big monthly Bitcoin meeting that's been running for years in Amsterdam, and my first thought upon seeing it was, "who says what the factual outcome is?". Sure in some cases it's black and white, but like most things in life there is a lot of weight in the interpretation. So it's back to the original problem with smart contracts - you still have to trust an oracle…

> I sat through some early presentations of Augur at the big monthly Bitcoin meeting that's been running for years in Amsterdam, and my first thought upon seeing it was, "who says what the factual outcome is?".

Is that a genuine question, or are you confused about the consensus mechanism? The answer to 'who says' is the core of what Augur is: people vote on what the outcome was, in a way that incentivizes them to vote for the answer they believe to be correct.

> So it's back to the original problem with smart contracts - you still have to trust an oracle, and I would bet ;) that if the stakes are high enough, an oracle will be manipulated in some way.

No, you do not have to trust an oracle. The whole mechanism is actually quite cool, you should check it out:

https://www.augur.net/whitepaper.pdf

> Let's take an election for example. We've had enough madness just in the US in the last 20 years to be skeptical of initially reported outcomes. In fact, some elections get reversed after study and investigation. Augur isn't going to reverse a funds exchange. And if someone has enough riding on an outcome, they may find it worth spending extra money to at least temporarily cause the outcome to match their bet. They just need to win briefly, even if the results get overturned later.

That's easy to solve. You simply define the question in a way that obviates those kinds of issues. In Augur, people vote on the outcome they believe is correct. The outcome of this process is defined as the truth, within the system. Since this is transparent, you place your bets with this in mind. You aren't betting on who will win the 2020 election, you're betting on which answer people will converge on for the winner of the 2020 election. A subtle, but important difference.

Re: The story of Augur, an Ethereum prediction market

#24
post #23
post #12

I sat through some early presentations of Augur at the big monthly Bitcoin meeting that's been running for years in Amsterdam, and my first thought upon seeing it was, "who says what the factual outcome is?". Sure in some cases it's black and white, but like most things in life there is a lot of weight in the interpretation. So it's back to the original problem with smart contracts - you still have to trust an oracle…

> I sat through some early presentations of Augur at the big monthly Bitcoin meeting that's been running for years in Amsterdam, and my first thought upon seeing it was, "who says what the factual outcome is?". Is that a genuine question, or are you confused about the consensus mechanism? The answer to 'who says' is the core of what Augur is: people vote on what the outcome was, in a way that incentivizes them to vot…

Then I completely remembered it differently/wrong, and my comments perhaps don't apply!

I will review it again.

Re: The story of Augur, an Ethereum prediction market

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's mostly true, with a caveat. By default the oracle is not decentralized, but what is decentralized is the "backstop". If I create a market, I can also be the one to report on the outcome of the market (versus it being decentralized in the original plan). What they introduced is the concept of a "dispute". So if I report on a market you can dispute it and say "Hey you are lying" and if enough people agree that I…

> if enough people agree that I lied, you get a portion of the market fees This creates a host of post-closing political incentives. You are no longer betting on an event outcome, but on a consensus process.

This is true, so it comes down to how well the consensus process reflect reality. It's a pretty interesting process: there are multiple layers of dispute escalation, and the ultimate backstop is that Augur splits in two. You keep REP only on the side of the split you voted for.

The theory is that the version of REP that reports the truth will be more valuable on the open market, and that the split is a credible threat which keeps everyone honest, so it will seldom actually happen.

Re: The story of Augur, an Ethereum prediction market

#28
post #23
post #12

I sat through some early presentations of Augur at the big monthly Bitcoin meeting that's been running for years in Amsterdam, and my first thought upon seeing it was, "who says what the factual outcome is?". Sure in some cases it's black and white, but like most things in life there is a lot of weight in the interpretation. So it's back to the original problem with smart contracts - you still have to trust an oracle…

> I sat through some early presentations of Augur at the big monthly Bitcoin meeting that's been running for years in Amsterdam, and my first thought upon seeing it was, "who says what the factual outcome is?". Is that a genuine question, or are you confused about the consensus mechanism? The answer to 'who says' is the core of what Augur is: people vote on what the outcome was, in a way that incentivizes them to vot…

> You aren't betting on who will win the 2020 election, you're betting on which answer people will converge on for the winner of the 2020 election. A subtle, but important difference.

To me, this undermines the argument that prediction markets are a source of truth.

Re: The story of Augur, an Ethereum prediction market

#30
post #29

If you are curious about the Augur usage metrics you can check http://dappboard.com/app/application/5a58431c5d7064dc7fb37cc...

The graph shows daily users at about 150-200

The only cryptocurrency "apps" with meaningful users are the exchanges like Coinbase or Binance with millions of users. The actual ethereum dapps have basically zero usage.

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