Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#61

Post by Adam503 » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 4:25 AM UTC

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #47

danielnicollet wrote: post #45

Assange and his band of techno freedom fighters are doing something not so different from launching a major startup against a flood of large entrenched competitors. It's very similar in that they need to cross a chasm and seize their audience against many odds. There are many software technology, product development, marketing and PR aspects we can learn from here. And the cause, well, we may not all agree with the c…

From what I've read, Assange is into ego-gratification, not idealism.

Where did you read that, rushlimbaugh.com?

Straight outta the Karl Rove playbook. Don't play defense, attack attack attack.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#62

Post by Adam503 » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 4:27 AM UTC

jhgfdsahgf wrote: post #60

barrkel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that there were WMDs in development / ready to use at the drop of a hat was part of the motivation to go to war at the decision-maker level, but not the core reason, I think. It was more a "look out, he has a gun - rush him" kind of snow-job to get in there, with the idea that something could be found to justify that approach. The bigger idea was a domino concept; that a remade Iraq would be a beacon of demo…

Should have nuked them - it worked for Japan.

I think the Japanese disagree on how well that nuking worked.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#63

Post by Adam503 » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 4:32 AM UTC

jeebusroxors wrote: post #53

jhgfdsahgf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US liberated Iraq from a bloody dictator That the US installed, in a war justified by lies, or are we still looking for the weapons of mass destruction that could be used in 45mins?

We are headed quickly into politics here but I'm ignorant and genuinely curious. Do we have evidence that the search for biological weapons was false?

Yes. Tons of evidence there were no bio weapons in Iraq. The UN weapons inspectors had inspected every square inch of Iraq over and over again. They said there was nothing to be found.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#64

Post by jsz0 » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 4:35 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #38

Just as a counterpoint, risking godwining this topic: What would you think if we were in mid-1944 and these documents detailed the operations of Nazi Germany and listed several people who helped German occupation forces? The morality of this war is at the core of this discussion. If you feel this war is immoral, then those who helped occupation forces to commit war crimes deserve no sympathy. If, however, you feel th…

The moral question of Iraq is further complicated by the progression of the war from an US invasion to an Iraqi civil war. In retrospect someone who was advocating a quick withdrawal from Iraq, myself included, in 2004 would have been more or less advocating the same policies these documents outline about the US condoning Iraqi-on-Iraqi torture. We just wouldn't have been around to look the other way but the outcome would have been just as bad if not worse. If you want to apply some of the same moral lessons to Afghanistan it really shows how incredibly complex war is.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#65

Post by Adam503 » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 4:37 AM UTC

viggity wrote: post #2

I understand combing through this material and releasing information about illegal or highly suspect activities. But a carte blanche release of all this classified material is going to get even more innocent people killed.

Innocent lives get taken in car wrecks every day. We don't abandon automobiles because there's a risk of innocent lives being lost in car wrecks.

Life has risk.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#66

Post by jhgfdsahgf » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 4:37 AM UTC

Adam503 wrote: post #62

jhgfdsahgf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should have nuked them - it worked for Japan.

I think the Japanese disagree on how well that nuking worked.

Yeah but we got the Sony walkmen, Manga, Honda Fireblade, Nintendo WII and some nice cameras. As well as a staunch ally that's been no trouble to anyone (except whales)

Just saying it's worth trying - just a couple of cities.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#67

Post by Adam503 » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 4:41 AM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #15

viggity wrote: post #2

I understand combing through this material and releasing information about illegal or highly suspect activities. But a carte blanche release of all this classified material is going to get even more innocent people killed.

No it's not. Stop repeating this unjustified phrase. Innocent people are dying because this material is unavailable and God knows what the Pentagon has been up to.

Innocent people die every day. Should we all stop driving cars because if the risk of car wrecks.

Should we all stay indoors when there are clouds overhead because there is a risk of innocent lives being lost when there are clouds overhead to lightning strikes?

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#68

Post by ThomPete » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 4:52 AM UTC

jhgfdsahgf wrote: post #66

Adam503 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Japanese disagree on how well that nuking worked.

Yeah but we got the Sony walkmen, Manga, Honda Fireblade, Nintendo WII and some nice cameras. As well as a staunch ally that's been no trouble to anyone (except whales) Just saying it's worth trying - just a couple of cities.

On what basis would you have nuked them?

They were at no treat what so ever to the US.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#69

Post by nohat » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 5:49 AM UTC

noelchurchill wrote: post #14

maukdaddy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that people's lives will be in danger after releasing the information is even more reason to not engage in that behavior in the first place WTF is wrong with you? Would you feel differently if YOUR name was on the list?

"WTF is wrong with you?" Try refraining from personal attacks on HN. And to respond to your statement, you seem to be missing the bigger picture: How many soldiers have been put in harms way and died BECAUSE the truth was hidden from the public? How many more soldiers will die because of that? There is absolutely no justification for the armed forces to engage in unethical behavior.

What's unethical? Depends quite a bit on your definition of ethics, even if ground rules like 'killing or hurting people is a bad thing' is agreed upon. The problem is one of balancing the risk and reward. The acceptable ratio varies from person to person, as well as the estimates for each. Collateral damage, for instance, is inevitable in war, and while such damage is clearly wrong, it isn't necessarily unethical. So saying that there is absolutely no justification to engage in unethical behavior is either trivially true, or false.

I happen to agree with your (I presume) belief that the suppressing the secrets in this case will have a higher cost than revealing them, but there is a reasonable argument to the contrary.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#70

Post by viggity » Sat, Oct 23, 2010, 6:19 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #38

Just as a counterpoint, risking godwining this topic: What would you think if we were in mid-1944 and these documents detailed the operations of Nazi Germany and listed several people who helped German occupation forces? The morality of this war is at the core of this discussion. If you feel this war is immoral, then those who helped occupation forces to commit war crimes deserve no sympathy. If, however, you feel th…

It is no where near the middle. The nazis intentionally and explicitly murdered some 12 to 14 MILLION people in various death camps. The US has done no such thing and has only ever proposed to leave the Iraqis alone and under a democratic government that they can themselves control. The US has only stayed so long as to ensure that said government is free of corruption and coercion and able to protect its citizens from nefarious causes.

To compare what the US has done to that of the Nazis is the most unjust characterization imaginable. Obviously injustices have occurred but on a scale that pales in comparison to the the intentional actions of the Nazis. Please put everything in perspective. Look at the intentions of parties involved before you compare a freedom loving people to the worst example of political ideology in the history of the world.