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Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

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Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#51

Post by justinweiss »

lefstathiou wrote: post #42
noelchurchill wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"WTF is wrong with you?" Try refraining from personal attacks on HN. And to respond to your statement, you seem to be missing the bigger picture: How many soldiers have been put in harms way and died BECAUSE the truth was hidden from the public? How many more soldiers will die because of that? There is absolutely no justification for the armed forces to engage in unethical behavior.

I know quite a few people in the special forces on the ground all over the middle east and you'd surprised how many adamently believe that if Americans did indeed know "the truth", we would already be at war with half of the middle east and possibly Russia. I think assuming that the American public has an aversion to war is a dangerous one. Remember that full transparency is a double edged sword. One the one hand peo…

Ok. But if that's what's actually happening, we need to have that conversation. Keeping these things secret will lead to nothing but waste, corruption, and misunderstanding.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#52

Post by [deleted] »

jhgfdsahgf wrote: post #43
rbanffy wrote: post #38

Just as a counterpoint, risking godwining this topic: What would you think if we were in mid-1944 and these documents detailed the operations of Nazi Germany and listed several people who helped German occupation forces? The morality of this war is at the core of this discussion. If you feel this war is immoral, then those who helped occupation forces to commit war crimes deserve no sympathy. If, however, you feel th…

>US liberated Iraq from a bloody dictator That the US installed, in a war justified by lies, or are we still looking for the weapons of mass destruction that could be used in 45mins?

[deleted]

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#53

Post by jeebusroxors »

jhgfdsahgf wrote: post #43
rbanffy wrote: post #38

Just as a counterpoint, risking godwining this topic: What would you think if we were in mid-1944 and these documents detailed the operations of Nazi Germany and listed several people who helped German occupation forces? The morality of this war is at the core of this discussion. If you feel this war is immoral, then those who helped occupation forces to commit war crimes deserve no sympathy. If, however, you feel th…

>US liberated Iraq from a bloody dictator That the US installed, in a war justified by lies, or are we still looking for the weapons of mass destruction that could be used in 45mins?

We are headed quickly into politics here but I'm ignorant and genuinely curious. Do we have evidence that the search for biological weapons was false?

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#54

Post by barrkel »

jeebusroxors wrote: post #53
jhgfdsahgf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US liberated Iraq from a bloody dictator That the US installed, in a war justified by lies, or are we still looking for the weapons of mass destruction that could be used in 45mins?

We are headed quickly into politics here but I'm ignorant and genuinely curious. Do we have evidence that the search for biological weapons was false?

The idea that there were WMDs in development / ready to use at the drop of a hat was part of the motivation to go to war at the decision-maker level, but not the core reason, I think. It was more a "look out, he has a gun - rush him" kind of snow-job to get in there, with the idea that something could be found to justify that approach.

The bigger idea was a domino concept; that a remade Iraq would be a beacon of democracy in the Middle East, that all the other states would similarly switch over (one way or another) to democracy, Muslim fundamentalism would no longer be a threat, and the whole region would be a capitalist wonderland with oil. Sort of like 50s/60s communism in reverse. But it didn't quite work out.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#55

Post by barrkel »

lefstathiou wrote: post #42
noelchurchill wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"WTF is wrong with you?" Try refraining from personal attacks on HN. And to respond to your statement, you seem to be missing the bigger picture: How many soldiers have been put in harms way and died BECAUSE the truth was hidden from the public? How many more soldiers will die because of that? There is absolutely no justification for the armed forces to engage in unethical behavior.

I know quite a few people in the special forces on the ground all over the middle east and you'd surprised how many adamently believe that if Americans did indeed know "the truth", we would already be at war with half of the middle east and possibly Russia. I think assuming that the American public has an aversion to war is a dangerous one. Remember that full transparency is a double edged sword. One the one hand peo…

Indeed, and these "hikers" and "tourists" keep on getting caught.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#56

Post by ajays »

maukdaddy wrote: post #7
noelchurchill wrote: post #5

There is no justification for doing wrong. The motive for keeping incriminating evidence hidden is to continue engaging in nefarious behavior without being caught. The fact that people's lives will be in danger after releasing the information is even more reason to not engage in that behavior in the first place. It is NOT justification for continuing to hide the horrendous things that have been done. The only thing t…

The fact that people's lives will be in danger after releasing the information is even more reason to not engage in that behavior in the first place WTF is wrong with you? Would you feel differently if YOUR name was on the list?

Lets flip this around.

We can all agree that if we knew in 2003 - 2009 that the gory details of the occupation would come out, many of the abuses would not have happened?

So now that we know that sites like WikiLeaks will leak such information, maybe (just maybe) current and future abuses will be reduced? Isn't that a positive thing from these leaks?

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#57

Post by ajays »

rick888 wrote: post #24
noelchurchill wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"WTF is wrong with you?" Try refraining from personal attacks on HN. And to respond to your statement, you seem to be missing the bigger picture: How many soldiers have been put in harms way and died BECAUSE the truth was hidden from the public? How many more soldiers will die because of that? There is absolutely no justification for the armed forces to engage in unethical behavior.

"And to respond to your statement, you seem to be missing the bigger picture: How many soldiers have been put in harms way and died BECAUSE the truth was hidden from the public? How many more soldiers will die because of that? There is absolutely no justification for the armed forces to engage in unethical behavior." If the guys from wikileaks actually cared about human life, they would go through all of the data and…

You may not want to believe it because your mind is made up, but: WikiLeaks did offer the US DOD the option to censor names in the documents. The fact that the DOD chose not to tells me that it is the DOD who doesn't care, and not WikiLeaks.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#59

Post by ajays »

jeebusroxors wrote: post #53
jhgfdsahgf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US liberated Iraq from a bloody dictator That the US installed, in a war justified by lies, or are we still looking for the weapons of mass destruction that could be used in 45mins?

We are headed quickly into politics here but I'm ignorant and genuinely curious. Do we have evidence that the search for biological weapons was false?

Biological weapons are easy to make. Remember Aum Shinrikyo in Japan in the 90s? Or Jonestown? It would be a fair assumption that half the world's militaries have some sort of biological weapons. Granted, many of them won't be able to put them on missiles and launch them.

So claiming that the presence of bio-weapons in Iraq is some sort of a justification for invasion is just plain silly. If this was all that was needed, we would have invaded half the countries on this planet; many of them continue to be far worse than Iraq ever was.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#60

Post by jhgfdsahgf »

barrkel wrote: post #54
jeebusroxors wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are headed quickly into politics here but I'm ignorant and genuinely curious. Do we have evidence that the search for biological weapons was false?

The idea that there were WMDs in development / ready to use at the drop of a hat was part of the motivation to go to war at the decision-maker level, but not the core reason, I think. It was more a "look out, he has a gun - rush him" kind of snow-job to get in there, with the idea that something could be found to justify that approach. The bigger idea was a domino concept; that a remade Iraq would be a beacon of demo…

Should have nuked them - it worked for Japan.
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