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The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

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Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#261

Post by obmelvin »

jahaja wrote: post #188
g9yuayon wrote: post #103

This hardly comes as a surprise. How many companies, especially startups, really need to tackle tough technical challenges? On the other hand, how many companies desperately need product talents to figure out what is valuable to produce? In addition, engineers have commoditized many technical solutions that used to be challenging in the past 15 years. Scaling used to be a tough challenge, not any more for many compan…

What's up with this usage of the word "talent"? Tech is in such acute need of humble pie I don't even know where to begin. I'm becoming disillusioned. Why is a programmer etc. a "talent", but a carpenter just an employee, hire or whatever? But maybe it's actually an appropriate term, now when our interview processes so clearly have ceased to be job interviews, and have become auditions - because nothing less satisfie…

> These middle-management positions are so unmeasurable that I think they may be greatest source of bullshit jobs in tech. So if it's true that their success is largely unmeasureable, I wonder how you've come to that conclusion?

But, product improvements shouldn't be immeasurable. Through analysis of engagement metrics, talking with users, etc. one can measure improvements. Sure, it isn't a direct measurement, but pure unmeasurable intuition is not how good PMs function

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#262

Post by jcheng »

dependsontheq wrote: post #224
riazrizvi wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth", said Kennedy, and all the senators rushed the podium, slapped him on the back, and popped champagne, as they realized the hardest part was done.

But it was the hardest part wasn’t it? Nobody since then managed to get that commitment for a space program.

The Soviets tried and failed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_crewed_lunar_programs

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#263

Post by galfarragem »

walshemj wrote: post #260
jahaja wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's up with this usage of the word "talent"? Tech is in such acute need of humble pie I don't even know where to begin. I'm becoming disillusioned. Why is a programmer etc. a "talent", but a carpenter just an employee, hire or whatever? But maybe it's actually an appropriate term, now when our interview processes so clearly have ceased to be job interviews, and have become auditions - because nothing less satisfie…

Because Tech is a "profession" and if you think we are you obviously haven't seen how other professions Architects for example and Journalists have a very high opinion of them selves.

All idealists have an high opinion of themselves.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#264

Post by titanomachy »

volkadav wrote: post #83
Zaheer wrote: post #18

I'm from Levels.fyi - we have a couple hundred entries for PM salaries here as well. From just a glance, it appears that Software Engineers still have higher pay though we admittingly have limited data currently: https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?track=Product%20Manager

Thank you for levels.fyi! It's been a handy tool as a hiring manager here trying to translate to our HR department why we should bring people in at level X vs. level Y. (For those of you reading this who haven't ever been a hiring manager at a bigco, there's a whole negotiation dance we tend to have to do with our internal HR department that you as a candidate don't see. This is why giving us hard data on what your o…

That makes sense, my FAANG offer wouldn't budge an inch until I sent them a screenshot of my competing offer. Immediately got another 20% after that.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#265

Post by ryandrake »

Jach wrote: post #160
ryandrake wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t sweat these. Every HN salary thread, people come out of the woodwork to note that their sister’s roommate’s brother works at Facebook and makes $300k, therefore all tech workers everywhere in Silicon Valley make that much on average. For some reason, people here love to take outlier employees at outlier companies and hold them up as averages.

Every HN salary thread, you come out of the woodwork with the same rhetoric. See: https://twitter.com/danluu/status/986693536534982659?lang=en For the lazy: "Median comp package at FB is $240k/yr (this number is skewed low since it's over all employees, not just engineers). Google, Amazon, etc. pay similarly. Combined, these companies employ > 100k programmers in the U.S out of maybe 3M-ish programmers." Directly fol…

I’m addressing OP’s anxiety. These threads can leave the average tech employee thinking his average salary is hopelessly low, where, in reality they are reading top examples from people at outlier companies. It’s like comparing yourself to the highlight-reel best moments of your social media friends.

EDIT: For what it’s worth, I’d like to point out you’re attacking me personally in your message, and not even addressing what I said, which is that people tend to take a bunch of exaggeration and extrapolate.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#267

Post by freedomben »

payne92 wrote: post #203
jahaja wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's up with this usage of the word "talent"? Tech is in such acute need of humble pie I don't even know where to begin. I'm becoming disillusioned. Why is a programmer etc. a "talent", but a carpenter just an employee, hire or whatever? But maybe it's actually an appropriate term, now when our interview processes so clearly have ceased to be job interviews, and have become auditions - because nothing less satisfie…

...because the skill gap between “ok”, “good”, and “great” is so much bigger for some jobs (software development) than it is for other jobs (carpentry).

As someone who has worked in carpentry, and as a software engineer for 10 years now, I completely disagree. I actually see the skill gap between ok, good, and great as being really similar in carpentry and software. A junior carpenter will make a lot of mistakes.

Especially as many software devs are becoming more like "code plumbers," if anything the skill gap may be bigger in carpentry in the future.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#268

Post by arountheworld »

paulgrant999 wrote: post #252
arountheworld wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get used to any salary in few months. You could be earning 2x as you currently are and feel exactly the same after a couple of months.

make more. eventually, you hit a wall where you have to move to buy overpriced shit, that fits your new "salary". What do you think a billionaire does with his money? How much shit can you buy before you simply, run out of shit to buy?

You may assume that would happen, but unless you really have a thing to show off, you'll keep a similar lifestyle and just watch your savings account growing. I know very few people who permanently changed their behaviour after a sudden change in their earnings. This is of course just anecdotal evidence.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#269

Post by anothergoogler »

dtech wrote: post #227
gnulinux wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same problem. I'm actually intentionally underpaid because this way (1) I have less anxiety about getting fired (2) I have less problems with imposter syndrome (3) I worry less about being underpaid since I know I'm underpaid. I know most people will think this is extremely irrational, but I'm paid about 3 times more than I can spend (I live very cheap and am happy this way) so I already save 2/3 of my tak…

You are of course free to do this, but you bring up 3 points, let's inspect them. I'm assuming you're being underpaid by $6k or more a year. 1: Fair, but should you worry about getting fired? Even if you are in danger, if save 2/3 of your paycheck for every month of work you can afford a month of unemployment with no adjustment in lifestyle, that's already large, but you could increase this padding by having a market…

You're ignoring the fact that most highly paid positions come with a lot of bullshit. Depending on the position and company, that could be overwork, ridiculous politics, or the inability for your work to have any impact. I still make good money by my standards, but it's $65k less than my highest pay (cash, not RSUs). No regrets. I find your advice that somebody not maximizing their earnings "seek a therapist" a bit tone-deaf.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#270

Post by solveit »

galfarragem wrote: post #263
walshemj wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Tech is a "profession" and if you think we are you obviously haven't seen how other professions Architects for example and Journalists have a very high opinion of them selves.

All idealists have an high opinion of themselves.

Journalists, idealists, pick one
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