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The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

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Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#251

Post by paulgrant999 »

I posted the Silicon valley range was about 120 to 160, with a high of 190....

and got downvoted.

from the article:

Online hiring platform Hired released a report on Aug. 25 analyzing 31,146 interview requests from 1,848 companies made through Hired’s platform during the first half of 2016. Their findings show product managers consistently get the top salary offers, $133,000 on average. Software engineers were offered an average of $123,000 followed by designers at $115,000 during the second quarter of 2016. Analyses of H1B work visas and Glassdoor data from Google, Facebook and other tech giants arrive at similar conclusions.

--

next time, don't be so ignorant.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#252

Post by paulgrant999 »

arountheworld wrote: post #250
gnulinux wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same problem. I'm actually intentionally underpaid because this way (1) I have less anxiety about getting fired (2) I have less problems with imposter syndrome (3) I worry less about being underpaid since I know I'm underpaid. I know most people will think this is extremely irrational, but I'm paid about 3 times more than I can spend (I live very cheap and am happy this way) so I already save 2/3 of my tak…

You can get used to any salary in few months. You could be earning 2x as you currently are and feel exactly the same after a couple of months.

make more. eventually, you hit a wall where you have to move to buy overpriced shit, that fits your new "salary".

What do you think a billionaire does with his money? How much shit can you buy before you simply, run out of shit to buy?

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#253

Post by matwood »

duderific wrote: post #246
x220 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Figuring out what to do is the hardest part. Engineering is typically the least significant part of the success or failure of a company.

Maybe in the short term. In the long term, a company can collapse under the weight of its own technical debt, when it can no longer innovate effectively compared to the competition.

If a company makes it to where they are collapsing under technical debt, they have already made it much farther than most startups.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#254

Post by someguydave »

slsii wrote: post #242
someguydave wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't contradict Pournelle's observation. The balance of power tends towards those who work for the organization in most firms. The bigger question in my mind: why firms at all? If individual PMs are so great, why bother with employees? Wouldn't you rather just contract all the elements of a technical project to other folks for a fixed fee? I do wonder what portion of good ol' boys and good ol' fashion nepotis…

There's a ~long history of people attempting to answer that question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_firm From the article, "Firms exist as an alternative system to the market-price mechanism when it is more efficient to produce in a non-market environment."

If that "theory of the firm" is true, then engineering is much less commoditized than stated by the top-level commenter.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#255

Post by someguydave »

x220 wrote: post #197
riazrizvi wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waves hand, "We can always throw some more engineers at that part of the problem, what's really hard is figuring out what to do", said the project manager, and the product manager, and the QA manager, and the manager-manager. Meanwhile, talking heads in also ran companies in Silicon Valley continued to sell off stock in the mantra, "Innovation is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration".

Figuring out what to do is the hardest part. Engineering is typically the least significant part of the success or failure of a company.

What do you mean by "figuring out what to do?" If you mean "write a detailed specification for every component in the system", then what is engineering exactly?

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#256

Post by aliston »

gnulinux wrote: post #170
Sharlin wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know most people will think this is extremely irrational I think that's perfectly reasonable. I find it hard to believe it would be "extremely irrational" to most people. Maybe I'm underestimating the extent to which money is fetishized in your culture (I presume the US). Also, being able to save 2/3 of your net salary is... a ludicrously privileged position, underpaid or not.

> Maybe I'm underestimating the extent to which money is fetishized in your culture I worked in the Bay Area and currently in Boston. I live in the startup culture. > Also, being able to save 2/3 of your net salary is... a ludicrously privileged position, underpaid or not. Yes! We software engineers are lucky. Even when we're underpaid (I'm paid $90k and my friends with similar experience, same education, same intere…

How is it possible to save 2/3rds of a 90k salary in Boston? After tax, that's probably about 64k, which means you manage to live on 21k a year? The average studio in Boston rents for more than that a year...

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#257

Post by metaphor »

paulie_a wrote: post #248
ecnahc515 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my (limited) experience; a lot of our best PMs were once engineers, and they usually transitioned to PM roles because it let them actually execute on their visions, in addition to potentially more career growth potential.

Project managers having an engineering background is definitely beneficial, but should also be in their past. They should not be actively coding on the project. It's not a split role of managing and developing.

I don't think the parent implied "actively coding on the project"...at the very least, I interpreted "execute on their visions" as having been granted the authority to direct the pursuit of business endeavors that previously didn't exist.

I'm also of the opinion that a technical manager who purposely relegates engineering to a forgotten past is one who is pragmatically posturing for premature obsolescence; an axe in denial who refuses the occasional sharpening cannot be discerned from a rusty shovel and will sooner dig his own grave.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#258

Post by BlackJack »

luckydata wrote: post #221
ryandrake wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea one of the major up/downsides of being the PM is the buck usually stops at you. Priduct couldn’t deliver on its promises? PM is accountable. Product couldn’t sell? PM. Product getting bad press? PM. Product succeeds wildly? PM.

I would add "engineering lying to my face about the status of a highly visible product and then telling me we have 3 months worth of work left one week before launch". It really happened.

I'm sorry to hear that, but something is wrong if the PM is that unaware of the state of the product.

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#259

Post by walshemj »

WalterSear wrote: post #237
lostlogin wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I just a unit of raw material to be put through the factory?!” Yes. This one is accurate.

I prefer the term 'Human Accounting' myself.

Human Remains is one term used in the UK

Re: The highest paid workers in Silicon Valley are product managers (2016)

#260

Post by walshemj »

jahaja wrote: post #188
g9yuayon wrote: post #103

This hardly comes as a surprise. How many companies, especially startups, really need to tackle tough technical challenges? On the other hand, how many companies desperately need product talents to figure out what is valuable to produce? In addition, engineers have commoditized many technical solutions that used to be challenging in the past 15 years. Scaling used to be a tough challenge, not any more for many compan…

What's up with this usage of the word "talent"? Tech is in such acute need of humble pie I don't even know where to begin. I'm becoming disillusioned. Why is a programmer etc. a "talent", but a carpenter just an employee, hire or whatever? But maybe it's actually an appropriate term, now when our interview processes so clearly have ceased to be job interviews, and have become auditions - because nothing less satisfie…

Because Tech is a "profession" and if you think we are you obviously haven't seen how other professions Architects for example and Journalists have a very high opinion of them selves.
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