Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 84 posts

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#31

Post by jjcm »

Kozoxy wrote: post #9
dickinson99 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like what? Other car manufactures already do remote software updates.

People's safety isn't something to be iterated. Any security patch will already come too late -- when it comes to cars, it must not have security problems to begin with. The cybersecurity model just isn't safe for this. It's up to them to fix this, not me.

"It must not have security problems to begin with"

No product is bulletproof from a security standpoint, and there's no way to make something bulletproof. What are you suggesting they do?

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#33

Post by Scoundreller »

koiz wrote: post #28
Scoundreller wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can that be? You can remotely update the system that does autopilot, and autopilot must have control over throttle/brake/steering. Even shutting off the lights or disabling the wipers can create big problems.

Systems are built in isolation, communication between them is encrypted. Disabling wipers or turning off the lights will kill us now? Not forgetting this hasn't happened, hasn't been proved to be possible and is all a theory. Theories are fine but acting as if tesla is activity ignoring this is funny.

They’re clearly not in isolation. We’re not talking about storing data, but sending it and receiving it, so if the messages are encrypted, you just need to feed the code that is doing the encrypting and voila.

Disabling wipers and all lights while driving at high speed with the wipers running full blast can be quickly fatal.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#34

Post by threeseed »

Still completely reckless in my opinion to deploy any autonomous system without LIDAR or some other long range, night time capable sensor.

Even if it's not reckless their competitors will offer low light and night time autonomous driving which will be a major advantage.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#35

Post by loser777 »

Someone wrote: post #30

”When you increase the number of parameters (weights) in an NN by a factor of 5 you don’t just get 5 times the capacity and need 5 times as much training data. In terms of expressive capacity increase it’s more akin to a number with 5 times as many digits. So if V8’s expressive capacity was 10, V9’s capacity is more like 100,000.” I find it very, very hard to believe that. I know ‘expressive power’ is a fairly vague…

It seems that there is stronger evidence that model architecture is more important than sheer number of parameters/computational complexity. Compare VGG-16 with something like MobileNet or ResNet-18.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#36

Post by koiz »

Scoundreller wrote: post #33
koiz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systems are built in isolation, communication between them is encrypted. Disabling wipers or turning off the lights will kill us now? Not forgetting this hasn't happened, hasn't been proved to be possible and is all a theory. Theories are fine but acting as if tesla is activity ignoring this is funny.

They’re clearly not in isolation. We’re not talking about storing data, but sending it and receiving it, so if the messages are encrypted, you just need to feed the code that is doing the encrypting and voila. Disabling wipers and all lights while driving at high speed with the wipers running full blast can be quickly fatal.

If they were we wouldn't be debating this.

Sorry you are wrong.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#37

Post by xvector »

threeseed wrote: post #34

Still completely reckless in my opinion to deploy any autonomous system without LIDAR or some other long range, night time capable sensor. Even if it's not reckless their competitors will offer low light and night time autonomous driving which will be a major advantage.

I do not get why your comment is so controversial - you are absolutely right.

Conventional cameras alone are not trustworthy for self-driving, and this is part of the reason every respectable company venturing into self-driving is incorporation technologies like LIDAR.

I find it sketchy that Tesla markets "future full-self-driving" when they are unlikely to have the hardware to make that a safe experience.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#38

Post by xvector »

iancarroll wrote: post #13
Kozoxy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People's safety isn't something to be iterated. Any security patch will already come too late -- when it comes to cars, it must not have security problems to begin with. The cybersecurity model just isn't safe for this. It's up to them to fix this, not me.

Tesla absolutely launched their over-the-air capabilities without sufficient planning. If you look at the early Keen Labs presentations[0] it's insane that it was launched the way it was. At least they added code signing later... [0] https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-17/thursday/us-17-Nie-Free-...

They did OTAs without code signing? That's an unprecedented level of incompetency! What were they thinking?

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#39

Post by omni »

Kozoxy wrote: post #9
dickinson99 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like what? Other car manufactures already do remote software updates.

People's safety isn't something to be iterated. Any security patch will already come too late -- when it comes to cars, it must not have security problems to begin with. The cybersecurity model just isn't safe for this. It's up to them to fix this, not me.

> People's safety isn't something to be iterated.

Look into the history of automotive safety to understand how ridiculous this sounds. Cars were total death traps for many, many decades.

Re: Tesla deploys massive new Autopilot neural net in v9

#40

Post by alakin »

Kozoxy wrote: post #4

That's great, but when are they going to properly address and mitigate the potentially massively lethal cyber- and national-security issues made possible by the tech? Or do we have to talk only about what they want us to talk?

Great, let's evaluate the deaths caused by regular cars. Lets evaluate risks posed by burning fossil fuels. Let's evaluate pretty much every single little detail about other auto brands and present our findings in a fashion where we can compare and rank best to worst. Having just done this I'm completely satisfied with Tesla's approach in comparison to what other brands have been doing.
Post reply on HN