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Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

unenvironment.org

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Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#21

Post by rayiner »

Symmetry wrote: post #11
Reason077 wrote: post #3

Electrification of surface transport is the most obvious way to improve air quality in dense cities. This needs to be a priority.

If the new power is generated in coal plants that might actually be a net minus, at least in particulates and SO2 terms. EDIT: I'm referencing this: A series of studies by Tsinghua University, whose alumni includes the incumbent president, showed electric vehicles charged in China produce two to five times as much particulate matter and chemicals that contribute to smog versus gas-engine cars. Hybrid vehicles fare li…

Particulates are localized, and coal plants generallt aren’t in densely populated areas.

Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#22

Post by olivermarks »

swebs wrote: post #12
Symmetry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the new power is generated in coal plants that might actually be a net minus, at least in particulates and SO2 terms. EDIT: I'm referencing this: A series of studies by Tsinghua University, whose alumni includes the incumbent president, showed electric vehicles charged in China produce two to five times as much particulate matter and chemicals that contribute to smog versus gas-engine cars. Hybrid vehicles fare li…

How so? A car's ICE is much less efficient than a power plant.

Planting a lot more trees will have a major impact on pollution reduction. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18215002 Half the plastics on the planet were made in the last 13 years https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/07/plastic-... EV transport is currently limited and unless solar, wind or hydro is used electricity has to be generated somewhere.

Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#23

Post by ASalazarMX »

DalasNoin wrote: post #17
Symmetry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the new power is generated in coal plants that might actually be a net minus, at least in particulates and SO2 terms. EDIT: I'm referencing this: A series of studies by Tsinghua University, whose alumni includes the incumbent president, showed electric vehicles charged in China produce two to five times as much particulate matter and chemicals that contribute to smog versus gas-engine cars. Hybrid vehicles fare li…

Power plants can be in low population density areas.

Better their intelligence than ours.

Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#24

Post by lawlessone »

DalasNoin wrote: post #17
Symmetry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the new power is generated in coal plants that might actually be a net minus, at least in particulates and SO2 terms. EDIT: I'm referencing this: A series of studies by Tsinghua University, whose alumni includes the incumbent president, showed electric vehicles charged in China produce two to five times as much particulate matter and chemicals that contribute to smog versus gas-engine cars. Hybrid vehicles fare li…

Power plants can be in low population density areas.

it's easier to process the waste to, rather than sticking scrubbers to every car..

Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#25

Post by make3 »

Symmetry wrote: post #11
Reason077 wrote: post #3

Electrification of surface transport is the most obvious way to improve air quality in dense cities. This needs to be a priority.

If the new power is generated in coal plants that might actually be a net minus, at least in particulates and SO2 terms. EDIT: I'm referencing this: A series of studies by Tsinghua University, whose alumni includes the incumbent president, showed electric vehicles charged in China produce two to five times as much particulate matter and chemicals that contribute to smog versus gas-engine cars. Hybrid vehicles fare li…

coal plants are much more efficient than individual machines

Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#26

Post by village-idiot »

swebs wrote: post #12
Symmetry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the new power is generated in coal plants that might actually be a net minus, at least in particulates and SO2 terms. EDIT: I'm referencing this: A series of studies by Tsinghua University, whose alumni includes the incumbent president, showed electric vehicles charged in China produce two to five times as much particulate matter and chemicals that contribute to smog versus gas-engine cars. Hybrid vehicles fare li…

How so? A car's ICE is much less efficient than a power plant.

Depends on the pollutants you're looking at.

From a CO2/efficiency standpoint, you're correct. A modern EV powered purely by coal power plants puts out less CO2 than a gasoline car, largely because of the efficiency difference between large power plants and ICE.

From a SO2/NO2 standpoint, EVs powered by coal would be far far worse, assuming gasoline. Gas/Diesel these days is ultra low sulfur, which reduces SO2 significantly. The only remaining issue is NO2, which is why the catalytic converter is there.

The only caveat is Diesel. Diesel engines, especially older ones, are pretty horrid things. It's only in the last couple of year have we started to get the particulate under control with DPFs, and the NOx issue remains very difficult to fix cheaply (see: VW). Chances are any diesel engines running in a place like China will be old and lack both DPFs and Urea based NOx control systems.

I am uncertain as to whether old diesel trucks or coal power plants produce more NOx.

Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#27

Post by jesstaa »

Reason077 wrote: post #3

Electrification of surface transport is the most obvious way to improve air quality in dense cities. This needs to be a priority.

human powered transport like walking or cycling works great in dense cities, it's more space efficient so it scales better too.

Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#29

Post by MichaelApproved »

dest wrote: post #15

I think it is misleading to display a picture of chimneys of nuclear power plants, when the only thing they release is clean water droplets: no SO2, NO2 or PM10. edit: Actually, not 100% sure it's a nuclear power plant. Thanks for your comments

Do you know for sure that it's a nuclear plant in the picture? I'm asking because those iconic cooling towers are also used for coal plants.

> The hyperboloid cooling towers are often associated with nuclear power plants,[1] although they are also used in some coal-fired plants and to some extent in some large chemical and other industrial plants.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower

Direct link to the picture from the article https://www.unenvironment.org/sites/default/files/styles/art...

Example cooling towers from a coal-fired power plant https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-eon-scholven-power-station...

Re: Air pollution linked to “huge” reduction in intelligence

#30

Post by mikeash »

Symmetry wrote: post #11
Reason077 wrote: post #3

Electrification of surface transport is the most obvious way to improve air quality in dense cities. This needs to be a priority.

If the new power is generated in coal plants that might actually be a net minus, at least in particulates and SO2 terms. EDIT: I'm referencing this: A series of studies by Tsinghua University, whose alumni includes the incumbent president, showed electric vehicles charged in China produce two to five times as much particulate matter and chemicals that contribute to smog versus gas-engine cars. Hybrid vehicles fare li…

So, don’t do that. Any solution can fail if you implement it badly.
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