The sentiments in this thread are surely one of the major driving factors behind techies being some of the most enthusiastic in the FIRE movement (financial independence, retire early). I often wonder why true lifelong career planning isn't part of formal secondary education programs. I've noticed a trend where especially in the software dev world, the reality seems to hit people like a ton of bricks in their mid to late thirties, seemingly with very little reflection on the likely paths earlier on, and FIRE seems like it is sometimes as much about saving face as it is about career and financial planning. Is it part of our inward nature spending much of our time trying to get in to a flow state to solve difficult problems that causes us to push away the messy and more difficult, human cantered, and politically loaded long term career development stuff in those early career years until that avoidance bites back?
Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
221–230 of 242 posts
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
They eventually get fired because too old/too expensive. Get into management/team leadership in a way or another asap. You're probably not feeling this right now because the economy is overheated. But be wary of the next recession if you're still doing the same job - however much better - than a junior for several times their salary. (If you've specialized and valuable skills that are extremely hard to replace you sh…
If you've specialized and valuable skills that are extremely hard to replace you should be fine. But if you're doing generic stuff it's time to take a cold hard look at what your career will be in the next 25 years. I agree completely. After ignoring my career and staying at one job for 10 years, I woke up in my mid 30s and realized I was way behind the times. I was a C/C++ bit twiddler. I started over, took a latera…
"realized I was way behind the times. I was a C/C++ bit twiddler."
Say what? We pay good money for that. The other stuff is of almost no value to us.
Heck, I almost never touch C++. It's plain C, assembly, or raw opcodes expressed in hexadecimal. This is where the fun is.
FWIW, we hire people much older than 40. We have people old enough to have worked with paper tape. (like a cross between punch cards and magnetic tape) If somebody wants to twiddle bits with us all day every day, have a go at it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17912861
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you've specialized and valuable skills that are extremely hard to replace you should be fine. But if you're doing generic stuff it's time to take a cold hard look at what your career will be in the next 25 years. I agree completely. After ignoring my career and staying at one job for 10 years, I woke up in my mid 30s and realized I was way behind the times. I was a C/C++ bit twiddler. I started over, took a latera…
"realized I was way behind the times. I was a C/C++ bit twiddler." Say what? We pay good money for that. The other stuff is of almost no value to us. Heck, I almost never touch C++. It's plain C, assembly, or raw opcodes expressed in hexadecimal. This is where the fun is. FWIW, we hire people much older than 40. We have people old enough to have worked with paper tape. (like a cross between punch cards and magnetic t…
I’m not saying their are no jobs for but twiddlers, but there aren’t as many in most major metropolitan areas where most of the jobs are either enterprise developers or yet another software as a service. It was more about the optionality.
The skillset is so specialized that I would spend years their an not be as hireable in the wider market.
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#224A - private office B - WFH C - Android D - few meetings E - good management F - mellow, friendly (probably older) colleagues G - no training of underlings H - low stress I - interesting work Independent contracting/consulting satisfies A and B; some subset satisfies C; D it likely fails; E is orthogonal or maybe slightly negatively correlated (some portion of those who hire consultants, have to do so because they're…
Reading variables is hard.
It would have been much much better to just use the first letters, like A for Android, P for private office, H for working from home.
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#225I suggest you read "Bullshit Jobs: A Theory", by David Graeber.
He explains that apprentice -> journeyman -> master no longer holds; we all get stuck at journeyman, working in the service of others for our entire career.
You, my friend, need to start your own company.
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
"realized I was way behind the times. I was a C/C++ bit twiddler." Say what? We pay good money for that. The other stuff is of almost no value to us. Heck, I almost never touch C++. It's plain C, assembly, or raw opcodes expressed in hexadecimal. This is where the fun is. FWIW, we hire people much older than 40. We have people old enough to have worked with paper tape. (like a cross between punch cards and magnetic t…
I’m not saying their are no jobs for but twiddlers, but there aren’t as many in most major metropolitan areas where most of the jobs are either enterprise developers or yet another software as a service. It was more about the optionality. The skillset is so specialized that I would spend years their an not be as hireable in the wider market.
Non-metropolitan areas can be nice.
I suppose bit twiddling is specialized. There are fewer jobs, but also fewer people seeking those jobs. That relative lack of competition goes in your favor. High-level developers (Java, JavaScript, Go, Python...) are being pumped out at a frantic pace.
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#227The average age of a successful startup founder is 45: https://hbr.org/2018/07/research-the-average-age-of-a-succes...
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#228A - private office B - WFH C - Android D - few meetings E - good management F - mellow, friendly (probably older) colleagues G - no training of underlings H - low stress I - interesting work Independent contracting/consulting satisfies A and B; some subset satisfies C; D it likely fails; E is orthogonal or maybe slightly negatively correlated (some portion of those who hire consultants, have to do so because they're…
It would be nice to see it in a table
P W D ! G M ! L I
O F R M M F T O N
F H D T G C U S W
---------------------------
indepCoCo Y Y y n ? ? Y n Y
bigTrendy N ? Y n ? n n n ?
startup N ? Y y ? n n n ?
bigBore$$ ? ? y N ? y ? y n
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not saying their are no jobs for but twiddlers, but there aren’t as many in most major metropolitan areas where most of the jobs are either enterprise developers or yet another software as a service. It was more about the optionality. The skillset is so specialized that I would spend years their an not be as hireable in the wider market.
Non-metropolitan areas can be nice. I suppose bit twiddling is specialized. There are fewer jobs, but also fewer people seeking those jobs. That relative lack of competition goes in your favor. High-level developers (Java, JavaScript, Go, Python...) are being pumped out at a frantic pace.
That’s true. There is more competition. After feeling stuck at one job because the number of openings for my specialty then was slim, I’ve been paranoid every since then. There are so many job openings for your standard “full stack developer” roles that I’ve been able to get another, better paying job within two or three weeks every time I have tried over the past ten years.
Staying at a job too long meant that I was also so underpaid, and ill equipped that I might as well have been just starting my career in my mid 30s. A high level entry job that I got as a C# developer was more than I was making after working for 10 years.
It was fine being a commodity developer when even your standard full stack developer was making $45K more than I was making when I started my transition and the salaries were rising. I moved up the rank as a “full stack” developer and got to the other side as a dev team lead/architect after switching companies 4 times.
Last year, I looked at the market and realized two things - Enterprise developers are an interchangeable commodity and are ripe for outsourcing and that even if I just picked up skills to fill in some gaps that I had from jumping jobs so often (mostly front end cool kids frameworks), I still couldn’t command a higher salary.
My “specialty” is coming at infrastructure and specifically AWS from a developer,software architect Devops perspective. Most “AWS Architects” come from a Netops background and that’s all they know. They end up costing companies more than they would spend on prem or at a colo because they just do a lift and shift and neither the netops, devops, or the developers do anything different. They just replace their on prem VMs with a bunch of more costly EC2 instances.
Back on topic: yes you can successfully be a developer in your 40s if you keep your skills relevant but after a certain point, your skillset as a developer isn’t worth enough to a company to keep up with your increasing salary demands. If you are okay with your salary stagnating or even becoming lower as your skillset is commoditized, they can go with that.
Otherwise, you have to figure out how your skillset can be multiplied - the easiest way to do that is to become a team lead, mentor, or just the “adult supervision” that can be the first among equals.
(Side note: the previous post with “thier” and “but twiddlers” is what happens when I post sleepy).
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not saying their are no jobs for but twiddlers, but there aren’t as many in most major metropolitan areas where most of the jobs are either enterprise developers or yet another software as a service. It was more about the optionality. The skillset is so specialized that I would spend years their an not be as hireable in the wider market.
Non-metropolitan areas can be nice. I suppose bit twiddling is specialized. There are fewer jobs, but also fewer people seeking those jobs. That relative lack of competition goes in your favor. High-level developers (Java, JavaScript, Go, Python...) are being pumped out at a frantic pace.
Say I were a web developer looking to transfer into a lower level developer role. How easy would it be for me to get and pass an interview? I'm guessing it's going to be extremely difficult to prove I have the skills you're looking for.