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Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

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Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#31

Post by rick888 »

flatline wrote: post #27
rick888 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you are silencing me. I am telling the truth. The guys from wikileaks have freely admitted that they don't care about the innocent lives that may or may not be lost from this information (and even further through their actions). If you look at the past HN articles about this, many of the supporting comments were along the same lines.

I did not downvote you, but since you are still asking, I found your original post very confusing, and it added nothing to the conversation. > As we've seen with earlier releases, it's better for a few innocent people to die than keep some of this information secret. Why/how is it better? "Some of them probably even deserve it" It's an inflammatory statement, I'm not even sure what you are trying to say.

"Why/how is it better?"

I don't think you got my point. My point is that the people from Wikileaks (not me) believe that it's better to bring this information to light than prevent innocent lives from being lost.

"Some of them probably even deserve it"

It was a quote..as in I didn't say it or believe it. Look at some of the comments in this article. Many people believe that this info should be brought to light and to hell with the consequences.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#32

Post by rick888 »

SpikeGronim wrote: post #28
rick888 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you are silencing me. I am telling the truth. The guys from wikileaks have freely admitted that they don't care about the innocent lives that may or may not be lost from this information (and even further through their actions). If you look at the past HN articles about this, many of the supporting comments were along the same lines.

Without more context, I find your statement that "Some of them probably even deserve it" offensive. If I had enough karma I would down vote you for that. Which human beings are you saying deserve to die? What facts and which code of ethics did you use to conclude that some people that you've never met deserve to die? If I am misinterpreting your statement, please correct me.

"Without more context, I find your statement that "Some of them probably even deserve it" offensive. If I had enough karma I would down vote you for that. Which human beings are you saying deserve to die? What facts and which code of ethics did you use to conclude that some people that you've never met deserve to die? If I am misinterpreting your statement, please correct me."

This is what many of the wikileaks supports believe, not me. By releasing info that could harm the people involved, you are letting people know that you don't give a damn about their lives.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#33

Post by GHFigs »

noelchurchill wrote: post #5

There is no justification for doing wrong. The motive for keeping incriminating evidence hidden is to continue engaging in nefarious behavior without being caught. The fact that people's lives will be in danger after releasing the information is even more reason to not engage in that behavior in the first place. It is NOT justification for continuing to hide the horrendous things that have been done. The only thing t…

Can you tell me what the incriminating evidence is and what the nefarious behavior you're referring to is?

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#34

Post by Xuzz »

rick888 wrote: post #3
viggity wrote: post #2

I understand combing through this material and releasing information about illegal or highly suspect activities. But a carte blanche release of all this classified material is going to get even more innocent people killed.

It's okay. As we've seen with earlier releases, it's better for a few innocent people to die than keep some of this information secret. "Some of them probably even deserve it"

The big question here is: what evidence do you have of that?

So far, I haven't seen any. Please let me know if you do know of any people negatively affected by this.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#36

Post by mquander »

rick888 wrote: post #31
flatline wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not downvote you, but since you are still asking, I found your original post very confusing, and it added nothing to the conversation. > As we've seen with earlier releases, it's better for a few innocent people to die than keep some of this information secret. Why/how is it better? "Some of them probably even deserve it" It's an inflammatory statement, I'm not even sure what you are trying to say.

"Why/how is it better?" I don't think you got my point. My point is that the people from Wikileaks (not me) believe that it's better to bring this information to light than prevent innocent lives from being lost. "Some of them probably even deserve it" It was a quote..as in I didn't say it or believe it. Look at some of the comments in this article. Many people believe that this info should be brought to light and to…

I don't believe you can show me a single comment anywhere that implies "it's OK because some of them probably even deserve it," because that sentiment makes no sense. It's extremely rude to put words like that in other people's mouths.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#37

Post by rbanffy »

rick888 wrote: post #29
chalimacos wrote: post #16

Some answers here are striking coming from users of a site called "Hacker News". "We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the crim…

"We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals." I've heard this manifesto used many times to defend behavior that is just…

> I've heard this manifesto used many times to defend behavior that is just as wrong.

I am not sure it applies here.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#38

Post by rbanffy »

Just as a counterpoint, risking godwining this topic:

What would you think if we were in mid-1944 and these documents detailed the operations of Nazi Germany and listed several people who helped German occupation forces?

The morality of this war is at the core of this discussion. If you feel this war is immoral, then those who helped occupation forces to commit war crimes deserve no sympathy.

If, however, you feel the US liberated Iraq from a bloody dictator and the people who help US troops to combat insurgents while risking their lives are heroes, you will have a completely different take on this.

The truth, probably, lies somewhere in the middle. We may or may not find out.

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#39

Post by sliverstorm »

gloob wrote: post #10
viggity wrote: post #2

I understand combing through this material and releasing information about illegal or highly suspect activities. But a carte blanche release of all this classified material is going to get even more innocent people killed.

This is the same sort of reasoning used by those who claim that America is responsible for September 11, 2001 because they spent the last 60 years dicking around in the Middle East. The second claim is true, and America bears responsibility for said dicking around. The first part is not - the blame falls on those who hijacked the planes and crashed them into things. People are not dying because Wikileaks releases stu…

> People are not dying because Wikileaks releases stuff. People are dying because other people are shooting them or blowing them up. Responsibility for an action rests with those who carry out that action.

So essentially, you believe that if I were to compromise a covert operative who is then killed, I have done nothing wrong? What the heck did we convict Aldrich Ames for?

Re: Wikileaks dumps 400,000 more files

#40

Post by DanielBMarkham »

tptacek wrote: post #35

This is a referendum on the legality and morality of the Iraq war, hiding behind the word "wiki".

I agree it's a technology and HN story, but as you can see the conversation is much more loaded around the emotional content of the leaks than the technology involved. (Or the implication of such technology on modern society, which I find interesting)

Without getting into too much naval-gazing, when I visit a topic with highly emotional posts, I always try to turn the subject around. See how it plays when it's a cause I fiercely support, people were hurt, and secrets were kept. Ask if my opinion would be different based on how I personally feel about the underlying politics, or if I am acting as part of a general rule that makes sense and can be applied to the world at large.

Tough conversations to have. I doubt we're going to have them here, and I doubt wikileaks has done anything at all to help us.

I await the day a startup can take topical news stories and help people understand where they agree on issues, how to develop and apply general principles by taking people with vastly different worldviews and finding consensus. I think this technology is possible. But I also feel like it's going to be a long wait. Too much notoriety and publicity to be had fanning the emotional flames.

This is a historic moment, no doubt. But it is not one I find any joy in, only deep sadness for all those involved.

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