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The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

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Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#111

Post by paulgrant999 »

harryh wrote: post #15
themagician wrote: post #10

You'd have to completely reframe the penalty for crimes to be percentage based instead of fixed amounts. Even when caught the penalties are often so low that they don't matter, so white collar criminals go right back to it. When you can routinely make $10 million doing something a $1 million fine the one time you get caught just isn't a big deal. The cost-benefit analysis almost always favors the criminal for white c…

What is an actual example where you can make more money committing a crime than you would be forced to pay back if you are caught and convicted? I don't think your assertion is true.

You would be in error. Severe, error.

But I'm not going to list a howto ;)

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#112

Post by pjc50 »

jjeaff wrote: post #78
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Well, yes: if you leave enough crime by the well-connected alone for long enough, in a country with poor election integrity and unlimited campaign finance spending, then you get a country run by gangsters. It came about pretty rapidly in Russia where there was no established democracy to displace.

While there have recently been some issues with some elections in the US, we definitely don't have an "election integrity" issue. There is very little evidence that any elections in the US have been affected by fraud by any significant amount.

I was thinking of issues like the use of provably hackable voting machines, as well as the selective disenfranchisement mentioned by other commentators. The latter has been a problem in the US for its entire existence.

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#113

Post by scotty79 »

jjeaff wrote: post #78
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Well, yes: if you leave enough crime by the well-connected alone for long enough, in a country with poor election integrity and unlimited campaign finance spending, then you get a country run by gangsters. It came about pretty rapidly in Russia where there was no established democracy to displace.

While there have recently been some issues with some elections in the US, we definitely don't have an "election integrity" issue. There is very little evidence that any elections in the US have been affected by fraud by any significant amount.

Main "election integrity" issue is that you have just two parties to choose from. And that's very close to one.

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#114

Post by someone454 »

cowkingdeluxe wrote: post #86
jjeaff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there have recently been some issues with some elections in the US, we definitely don't have an "election integrity" issue. There is very little evidence that any elections in the US have been affected by fraud by any significant amount.

There are many ways to negatively affect election integrity, both illegal and legal. For example, in Georgia, US, one of the candidates himself blocked 53,000 voter registrations just 3 weeks before the election. The demographics of the 53,000 is 70% black. https://www.npr.org/2018/10/13/657109536/georgia-puts-53-000... Gerrymandering, strict voter id laws (e.g. requiring drivers license but removing all but one DMV…

So who affected the integrity, the guy who blocked the votes or the woman he’s running against? If the voter registrations are questionable, shouldn’t they be checked, regardless of the race of the registrants?

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#115

Post by pjc50 »

cowkingdeluxe wrote: post #86
jjeaff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there have recently been some issues with some elections in the US, we definitely don't have an "election integrity" issue. There is very little evidence that any elections in the US have been affected by fraud by any significant amount.

There are many ways to negatively affect election integrity, both illegal and legal. For example, in Georgia, US, one of the candidates himself blocked 53,000 voter registrations just 3 weeks before the election. The demographics of the 53,000 is 70% black. https://www.npr.org/2018/10/13/657109536/georgia-puts-53-000... Gerrymandering, strict voter id laws (e.g. requiring drivers license but removing all but one DMV…

Yes, this is the kind of corruption where someone should go to jail but won't. It might not even be illegal for the Secretary of State to simply deregister voters who will be voting for his opponent.

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#116

Post by evancox100 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #96
evancox100 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where GP got his/her numbers, but the $3 to $1 ratio is way off. Maybe it was describing the marginal rate for additional collection of unpaid taxes? US federal income and payroll tax receipts for 2018 was approx $3,000 billion, while the IRS budget for 2018 was only $11.7 billion, a ratio of approx 256 to 1. It makes sense that the rate at the margin would be much higher than the overall rate, you've alread…

> Not sure where GP got his/her numbers, but the $3 to $1 ratio is way off. Maybe it was describing the marginal rate for additional collection of unpaid taxes? US federal income and payroll tax receipts for 2018 was approx $3,000 billion, while the IRS budget for 2018 was only $11.7 billion, a ratio of approx 256 to 1. That's including all the taxes paid by people with unchallenged tax returns. That's basically just…

Yes, that's exactly what I said in the paragraph after that.

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#117

Post by Brockenstein »

jstanley wrote: post #16
Waterluvian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit surprised to find someone suggesting that selling prescription pills under the counter shouldn't be illegal. Do you mind elaborating on your perspective?

If there's a willing buyer, and a willing seller, and the goods aren't stolen, and the seller isn't lying about what the goods are, then who is the victim? If there's no victim, there's no crime. (And, yes, identical logic does apply equally to illegal drugs).

> then who is the victim?

A lot of the times the drugs being sold are painkillers, opioids and such. And this doesn't happen in a vacuum where no one else is harmed. Alcohol is legal, and there's lots of victims involving its use. We're just willing to tolerate it and we tried prohibition and it didn't work. And then some yahoos decided to try Prohibition II, like drugs are really different when alcohol is a drug itself.

The whole reason drugs are illegal is because of all the social ills having 20% of the population addicted to drugs in the late 19th century caused. And it's all been knee-jerk reactions and staying the course no matter how insane or counter-productive the results are ever since.

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#118

Post by deadmetheny »

cowkingdeluxe wrote: post #86
jjeaff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there have recently been some issues with some elections in the US, we definitely don't have an "election integrity" issue. There is very little evidence that any elections in the US have been affected by fraud by any significant amount.

There are many ways to negatively affect election integrity, both illegal and legal. For example, in Georgia, US, one of the candidates himself blocked 53,000 voter registrations just 3 weeks before the election. The demographics of the 53,000 is 70% black. https://www.npr.org/2018/10/13/657109536/georgia-puts-53-000... Gerrymandering, strict voter id laws (e.g. requiring drivers license but removing all but one DMV…

The USA is one of the few countries in the world that doesn't require an ID to vote. I'm continually astounded by the fact that people consider that having some sort of identification, which most functioning adults ought to have anyway, is some sort of horrifying oppression.

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#119

Post by leetcrew »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #99
leetcrew wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i would argue that if taxes are so onerous as to support a black market for a legal good, the taxes are probably much too high. for instance, consider the price of cigarettes in the state of new york. the average cost of a pack (after tax) is $12.85. the federal tax is about $1 per pack, and the state government levies an additional $4.35. without accounting for local taxes that are added in some counties/cities, tha…

> i would argue that if taxes are so onerous as to support a black market for a legal good, the taxes are probably much too high. Nah, when something has large negative externalities you set the tax to the point of mostly discouraging it. That'll be pretty high. It's supposed to be. > in addition to being an absurd tax from the get-go (in my opinion), it is also quite regressive, since poor people are significantly m…

> Nah, when something has large negative externalities you set the tax to the point of mostly discouraging it. That'll be pretty high. It's supposed to be.

you really think each pack of cigs does $5.35 worth of damage to people other than the smoker?

Re: The U.S. Needs to Crack Down on White-Collar Crime

#120

Post by [deleted] »

harryh wrote: post #27
Retric wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about criminal convictions. In theory it's just a civil case with a criminal case to follow. Which is why SEC fines are often less than the net befit. But, the actual number of criminal cases is rather low. EX: "In June 2009, the SEC sued Angelo Mozilo, former CEO of mortgage lender Countrywide Financial, and two other former officers, charging that they misled investors about the quality of Countrywide's lo…

It's not at all clear that all of Mozilo's earnings came from fraudulent activity. In fact, it's almost certainly true that this is not the case.

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