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The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

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Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#41

Post by FooHentai »

nabla9 wrote: post #7

Death penalty is barbaric but these methods are just cruel. Why not use preferred methods for euthanasia, like exit bag? It's fast, painless and cheap.

There's a fantastic documentary called 'How to kill a human being', with Michael Portillo (former UK politician), made back in 2008.

It covers this quite nicely - Includes an interview with a death penalty advocate and asks about a 'theoretical painless execution method' and the advocate agrees that if such thing were available it would be ideal.

Then later, after Portillo has done a bunch of investigation, hypoxia (I think) is landed on as an ideal solution. It's put to the advocate, who then squirms and insists that it's not a suitable 'punishment'.

My memory is hazy since I haven't seen it in a decade, but it's a fantastic doco and probably freely available now.

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#42

Post by colordrops »

function_seven wrote: post #38
bodas wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of death penalties is to kill someone gruesomely as a warning to everyone else. Electric chairs do that, opioids not so much.

But that’s definitely not the point of lethal injection. It was adopted as a “humane” way of executing the condemned. So, for those who truly want a painless and non-messy death, it really isn’t as hard as they’re making it on themselves. A handful of sleeping pills and a solid dose of Fentanyl will do it.

I wouldn't say "definitely". There is some evidence that the complexity around lethal injection is to leave room for "accidents" that can cause the executed to suffer before they die.

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#43

Post by copperx »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #29
jacobsheehy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. From what I understand, 1) that theory is incorrect and the death penalty is not seen as a deterrent by potential future criminals (rather it may be the opposite) [citation coming]; and 2) Policymakers who say it is a deterrent are either lying or disinformed. My understanding of the death penalty is that it is intended as violent punishment and is done gruesomely for the purposes of revenge. Read an…

Agreed. But the death penalty still has the property that it avoids recidivism completely. Which is a deterrent of sorts.

Life imprisonment avoids recidivism completely too. At least on the civilian population.

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#44

Post by r00fus »

FooHentai wrote: post #41
nabla9 wrote: post #7

Death penalty is barbaric but these methods are just cruel. Why not use preferred methods for euthanasia, like exit bag? It's fast, painless and cheap.

There's a fantastic documentary called 'How to kill a human being', with Michael Portillo (former UK politician), made back in 2008. It covers this quite nicely - Includes an interview with a death penalty advocate and asks about a 'theoretical painless execution method' and the advocate agrees that if such thing were available it would be ideal. Then later, after Portillo has done a bunch of investigation, hypoxia (…

So is your thought that the death penalty advocate really doesn't want to do away with the inmate, but instead to punish them?

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#45

Post by copperx »

FooHentai wrote: post #41
nabla9 wrote: post #7

Death penalty is barbaric but these methods are just cruel. Why not use preferred methods for euthanasia, like exit bag? It's fast, painless and cheap.

There's a fantastic documentary called 'How to kill a human being', with Michael Portillo (former UK politician), made back in 2008. It covers this quite nicely - Includes an interview with a death penalty advocate and asks about a 'theoretical painless execution method' and the advocate agrees that if such thing were available it would be ideal. Then later, after Portillo has done a bunch of investigation, hypoxia (…

What is a doco?

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#46

Post by function_seven »

dannypgh wrote: post #6
function_seven wrote: post #3

All this complication around methods of execution baffles me. Why don’t we use a massive dose of fentanyl or some other opioid? I’ve got to be missing something, because that seems like a simple, one-step process that doesn’t risk the pain of paralytics and potassium chloride. I think the death penalty is a useless relic, but if we’re going to do it, why make it so bizarre?

That would require either the state finding a legal source of fentanyl that is willing to sell them the drug for that purpose (challenging, given most pharma companies refuse due to some mix of principles and not wanting their product to be associated with death) or the state contracting with black market suppliers. Given the state imprisons low level illicit drug suppliers, I'm guessing the hypocrisy of granting leg…

That already have that problem with the drugs currently used, so it doesn’t seem to be an additional roadblock to using a simpler cocktail.

Also, aren’t there Chinese suppliers who wouldn’t add those troublesome stipulations?

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#47

Post by URSpider94 »

function_seven wrote: post #3

All this complication around methods of execution baffles me. Why don’t we use a massive dose of fentanyl or some other opioid? I’ve got to be missing something, because that seems like a simple, one-step process that doesn’t risk the pain of paralytics and potassium chloride. I think the death penalty is a useless relic, but if we’re going to do it, why make it so bizarre?

Opioid overdose is not as reliably deadly as people think. Yes, it CAN kill, but it doesn’t always, and not in a defined time period, and not always cleanly - respiratory arrest vs. cardiac arrest vs. brain death. The goal of the protocol is to have a process that has a very high likelihood of causing death within a fairly short period.

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#48

Post by mikeash »

dmm wrote: post #25
Kaveren wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitrogen gas appears to be what states* are looking into [1] [2]. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudenc... [2] http://time.com/3749879/nitrogen-gas-execution-oklahoma-leth... *Edit: Changed "statesn" to "states".

Nitrogen would be a lot safer for everyone else around. You can release lots of N2 in a reasonably ventilated room without harm but that's not the case with CO.

Everything I’ve heard about hypoxia indicates that it’s a neutral or pleasant experience. You lose your higher mental functions first so you don’t panic or worry about what’s going on. You feel fine until you keel over. The fact that this isn’t the standard way to do it is a clear sign to me that the people making these decisions aren’t interested in making it quick and simple.

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#49

Post by wolfgke »

dannypgh wrote: post #6
function_seven wrote: post #3

All this complication around methods of execution baffles me. Why don’t we use a massive dose of fentanyl or some other opioid? I’ve got to be missing something, because that seems like a simple, one-step process that doesn’t risk the pain of paralytics and potassium chloride. I think the death penalty is a useless relic, but if we’re going to do it, why make it so bizarre?

That would require either the state finding a legal source of fentanyl that is willing to sell them the drug for that purpose (challenging, given most pharma companies refuse due to some mix of principles and not wanting their product to be associated with death) or the state contracting with black market suppliers. Given the state imprisons low level illicit drug suppliers, I'm guessing the hypocrisy of granting leg…

> That would require either the state finding a legal source of fentanyl that is willing to sell them the drug for that purpose (challenging, given most pharma companies refuse due to some mix of principles and not wanting their product to be associated with death) or the state contracting with black market suppliers.

Or simply open a small gouvernmental lab that produces the drug in the small amounts necessary.

Re: The Electric Chair That Might Soon Be Used in Tennessee

#50

Post by mikeash »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #29
jacobsheehy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. From what I understand, 1) that theory is incorrect and the death penalty is not seen as a deterrent by potential future criminals (rather it may be the opposite) [citation coming]; and 2) Policymakers who say it is a deterrent are either lying or disinformed. My understanding of the death penalty is that it is intended as violent punishment and is done gruesomely for the purposes of revenge. Read an…

Agreed. But the death penalty still has the property that it avoids recidivism completely. Which is a deterrent of sorts.

So does a life sentence.
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