Earlier quoted context omitted.
A good strategy in this scenario is to take the first job you can when you need money, but keep interviewing. This way you can be more selective since your needs are already being met.
Sorry but that's a very good way to hurt your career. The community is surprisingly small. As in, I swear it's less than 3 hops from me to most people who might cross my desk when recruiting. I can tell you we know who have done this and we shy away from them. They're a waste of time.
Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
211–220 of 242 posts
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#212A - private office B - WFH C - Android D - few meetings E - good management F - mellow, friendly (probably older) colleagues G - no training of underlings H - low stress I - interesting work Independent contracting/consulting satisfies A and B; some subset satisfies C; D it likely fails; E is orthogonal or maybe slightly negatively correlated (some portion of those who hire consultants, have to do so because they're…
I wouldn't put too much emphasis on 'older colleagues' - it's good to have a range of ages on a team for the different attitudes that they bring. As long as everyone respects one another, it's an asset, not a problem.
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#213Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it is important to work for as many different companies as you can during your twenties so you can figure out what is important to you. Then spend your thirties trying to find your way back to your favorite environment so that you can spend your forties in it.
Words of wisdom grasshopper.
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So if the team lead is 35 with 10 years eng > experience, they will probably be worried about > a 45 y/o with 25 years eng experience who will > challenge their authority and possibly prevent > them from leading the whole team the way they want. This was a huge factor at my last job, with myself and other engineers who were much more experienced than the people who were (inexplicably) placed in charge. We had a VP…
An interesting reply to the GP comment. I finished reading the GP and immediately thought "so how do you learn to effectively manage people with more experience than yourself?", and then I read this comment. Hmm. I certainly don't want to end in the position of the manager you're referring to. I'm scared about/by the quantity of things I don't know, though, across the board, so there's that. (One of those things that…
> My understanding of management is of owning a summarized,
> superset overview of a bunch of areas that I'm (ostensibly)
> coordinating.
I would most definitely agree with you. A manager doesn't need to have more "in the trenches" knowledge than those that report to them. In fact that's probably not even possible or even desirable. Most of my really good managers have been less technical than me. > Hmm. I certainly don't want to end in the position
> of the manager you're referring to. I'm scared
> about/by the quantity of things I don't know, though,
> across the board, so there's that. (One of those things
> that are hard to sum up as good or bad, heh.)
If you're concerned about it, that's probably an excellent sign that you'll do what it takes not to fall into that trap.Actually I'll be really specific about the trap our manager fell into. It's SUPER avoidable. Here's what he did:
1. He or his management would present a problem or challenge
2. He would design a solution with his very incomplete knowledge, down to the technical details
3. He would break it up into tasks
4. He would assign those tasks to us
You can see the problem there. The people with the actual in-the-trenches knowledge were completely shut out of the design process and his solutions were often terrible.
Furthermore, WE were the ones made to look bad by this process. HIS management thought he was this uber-competant guy who could not only manage but architect solutions as well! And even break them up into little bite-sized chunks for the engineers to execute!
And WE looked like "negative nancies" who were like, slowing him down by pushing back against these solutions and tasks he handed out. He was like a poor general who was always getting his troops killed, that managed to convince the higher-ups that he was just constantly given bad troops or something.
His favorite retort was "well, what's your suggestion?" when we challenged his poorly thought-out solutions. And it was like... I don't know, Ben. I just got handed your shitty solution five seconds ago and you still haven't even told us what you're even trying to accomplish here. We haven't had three hours or three days or three weeks to come up ideas like you have.
Obviously, the process ought to have gone like this:
1. He or his management would present a problem or challenge
2. He should present the problem to his team, explaining the technical goals as well as how those goals fit into the big picture of the business
3. The team collectively should have designed and discussed possible solutions.
4a. Through that process he should have acted as advisor and sounding board. He should have recognized our greater domain knowledge.
4b. Of course, that street goes both ways. He should have recognized our greater experience and domain knowledge, but we should have also recognized the need for to prove the viability of our solutions to him before implementing them, just like we'd do with any manager regardless of relative age or experience -- the relationship would not work if we expected him to simply "take our word for it" because we we older or more experienced.
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#216When I was 30, people just looked at me and assumed I was a competent software engineer because I looked exactly like a very senior software engineer, and I presented myself in that way. But I was very junior, having made a recent career change. Yet they paid me like a prince, and I rose so rapidly through the ranks that I became an executive. Now I'm 50, and my company folded and I went to the curb, and am looking f…
> My over-40 career advice for you is to remember what they do to engineers that are over 40. No offense personally intended, but as a mid-40s engineer/manager who knows many 40s/50s engineers, I can't relate to this sentiment. We have a couple of older engineers who are kinda useless, but we also have some useless young engineers too. Some of the older engineers dominate the engineering org, leading large architectu…
And observation about flip side: When Nokia came crashing down, lot of engineers where (and still are) struggling to get a new job. They had been working on same area for decades, with tools that are limited to their old work - and no desire to take chances and trying out something different.
Yeah, age can be limiting factor, sometimes, but don’t let it be because of your own fault.
Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#217Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing with managers is that they have to understand the work being done well enough to make decisions about direction and resource allocation, while also having tons of people skills. In tech you either get a manager who doesn't have a technical background and just doesn't understand the thing they're managing, or you get someone with a technical background who stereotypically doesn't have the necessary people sk…
AFAIK many hospitals have a "MBA manager" and a "doctor manager" - I don't know exactly how they relate to one another (who's the "boss boss"), but the idea is that they each bring their part of superior skills to the table. Would the same idea work for IT? Or, another idea would be, to take a look at how traditional (non-IT) engineering companies work (although the main difference between both medicine and engineeri…