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Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

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Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#131
post #66

I'm surprised C-section rates are higher among wealthier, education women. I would assume educated women are more likely to understand the risks associated with C-sections.

Highrr age of mother during first childbirth and money probably make difference.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#132

Women feel enormous pressure (at least here in the UK) to give birth naturally, from both their peers and health professionals. How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. My wife (an epidemiologist) deliberated for months over having our second by VBAC (vaginal birth after csection) and opted to go for it, due to the overwhelming expectation from everyone around her that she should d…

Very sorry for your loss. After her first C-section, a relative of mine was told by her physicians that all subsequent births should be the same because that was safer. It's interesting how the standard of care varies between nations.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was also the theme of Ishmael , a terrible book wrapped around an interesting idea—that the native Americans practiced the right balance with the rest of nature.

What made it terrible?

I thought it was great when I read it in high school. Presumably if I reread it now issues of logic and style might stand out a bit more? I've found that for other books I loved a long time ago.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#134

Women feel enormous pressure (at least here in the UK) to give birth naturally, from both their peers and health professionals. How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. My wife (an epidemiologist) deliberated for months over having our second by VBAC (vaginal birth after csection) and opted to go for it, due to the overwhelming expectation from everyone around her that she should d…

> How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. I'm sorry for your loss. Caesarian's costs the NHS around £1,700 a time compared with £750, for a normal childbirth and women also stay in hospital for twice as long on average. There is a general presumption in the UK that avoiding what is an invasive operation is preferable for both baby and mother alike, in the absence of other factors.…

> I would argue that clearly How a baby is delivered is other people's business since other people are involved.

This is one major reason to oppose publicly funded health care. _Every_ decision becomes a public one.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no. There are a whole host of reasons for having a c-section. The risk of having a massive tear (ie vag to arse(4c tear), or literally tearing a new arsehole) is 1 in 4. This has long term life altering consequences. An "elective" c-section is not the same as "booking in". The less "identity politics" that are wrapped up in this, the better.

No. > The risk of having a massive tear (ie vag to arse(4c tear), or literally tearing a new arsehole) is 1 in 4. Yes and it usually heals very well. The tissue there is made to deal with that. My sister had that happen 5 years ago, it even continued into her gut for a few cm. So that was a very bad case, but it still healed perfectly, although it took about 3 month.

... 3 months. Unless she had corrective surgery then she's almost certainly got some level of incontinence.

There will(or should) have been physiotherapy to get some semblance control back.

Look, there is nothing wrong with a c-section or a vaginal delivery. To make women feel that they are somehow inferior for having one is totally unacceptable. Something like 10-20% of births endup in caesarian, otherwise there is a massive chance of a bad outcome for both child and mother.

Source: wife who is a paediatrician and attends lots of births where the child is in distress.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#136
post #75

Women feel enormous pressure (at least here in the UK) to give birth naturally, from both their peers and health professionals. How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. My wife (an epidemiologist) deliberated for months over having our second by VBAC (vaginal birth after csection) and opted to go for it, due to the overwhelming expectation from everyone around her that she should d…

Sorry for your loss. And I agree on the pressure around birthing choice. My wife just delivered our 3rd child, and at this point we felt confident in our choices. But the birthing class we attended before our first child was born was full of fear, pressure, and pseudoscience.

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Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not call the anatomy of females “holes.”

The fact that it is a hole is relevant to this discussion. The physics and safety of a large object passing through a relatively small hole are the entire thing in question.

The organs and tissues surrounding the "hole" (not to mention their psychological significance to their owner) are of considerable relevance to the evaluation of vaginal delivery. To reduce the entire process to passing an object through a hole is, well, reductive.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#138
post #43
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually historically, we foraged and hunted. After reading Sapiens I’m convinced that farming actually set humans on the path towards this very suffering. Large scale war, famine and pretty much every post agrarian revolution ill, is a direct consequence of having food surpluses.

I haven't had my first coffee in the morning yet, so it may be me, but I'm struggling to see the link between food surplus & farming and war?

Hunting/gathering/swiddening tribes may have wars but they're just tribal wars, which are more like random murders. Lots of regret but those left alive can move on. In order to get awful generation-destroying authoritarian war wars, you have to have a sovereign. A sovereign requires what James C. Scott has called "legible" surplus. This is a surplus the sovereign can expect at regular intervals in the same locations. That is, fixed agriculture, preferably of grains or similar crops that don't spoil easily but require lots of related industry in order to support life.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. I'm sorry for your loss. Caesarian's costs the NHS around £1,700 a time compared with £750, for a normal childbirth and women also stay in hospital for twice as long on average. There is a general presumption in the UK that avoiding what is an invasive operation is preferable for both baby and mother alike, in the absence of other factors.…

> I would argue that clearly How a baby is delivered is other people's business since other people are involved. This is one major reason to oppose publicly funded health care. _Every_ decision becomes a public one.

Even if that were true, which I don't think it is, it still seems very much preferable to not getting necessary treatment because it's too expensive.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#140

C-section babies are prone to certain ailments later in life: "Giant study links C-sections with chronic disorders" - http://sciencenordic.com/giant-study-links-c-sections-chroni... My guess is that this is tied to the reduced exposure to the mothers' vaginal and anal microbiome that occurs during vaginal delivery but which is absent in C-section. Much as childhood exposure to animals reduces autoimmune disorders in…

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