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Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

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Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#71

Post by Angostura »

danw1979 wrote: post #30

Women feel enormous pressure (at least here in the UK) to give birth naturally, from both their peers and health professionals. How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. My wife (an epidemiologist) deliberated for months over having our second by VBAC (vaginal birth after csection) and opted to go for it, due to the overwhelming expectation from everyone around her that she should d…

> How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. I'm sorry for your loss.

Caesarian's costs the NHS around £1,700 a time compared with £750, for a normal childbirth and women also stay in hospital for twice as long on average. There is a general presumption in the UK that avoiding what is an invasive operation is preferable for both baby and mother alike, in the absence of other factors.

I would argue that clearly How a baby is delivered is other people's business since other people are involved. However the ultimate choice should be the mother's.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#74

Post by gdubs »

StreamBright wrote: post #73

C section saved the life of my child. I do not care if there is an "epidemic" (what a heck does it mean in a context of a surgical procedure at all???).

It means that in some cases the procedure is life saving, and in other cases unnecessary and potentially riskier than vaginal delivery. (Happy for you and your family that your child made it out OK — don’t know if it was recent, but congrats nonetheless!)

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#75

Post by gdubs »

danw1979 wrote: post #30

Women feel enormous pressure (at least here in the UK) to give birth naturally, from both their peers and health professionals. How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. My wife (an epidemiologist) deliberated for months over having our second by VBAC (vaginal birth after csection) and opted to go for it, due to the overwhelming expectation from everyone around her that she should d…

Sorry for your loss. And I agree on the pressure around birthing choice. My wife just delivered our 3rd child, and at this point we felt confident in our choices. But the birthing class we attended before our first child was born was full of fear, pressure, and pseudoscience.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#76

Post by amalag »

My mother was in labor for over 36 hours (maybe more, she told me but I forgot) in 1976. You know that would be a C-section nowadays. She had two more children after that. I don't know how long her labor was for those but I assume it wasn't as bad.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#77

Post by b_tterc_p »

danw1979 wrote: post #30

Women feel enormous pressure (at least here in the UK) to give birth naturally, from both their peers and health professionals. How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. My wife (an epidemiologist) deliberated for months over having our second by VBAC (vaginal birth after csection) and opted to go for it, due to the overwhelming expectation from everyone around her that she should d…

I feel doctors should be allowed to refuse alternate procedures that heighten risk for the patient.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#78

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Angostura wrote: post #71
danw1979 wrote: post #30

Women feel enormous pressure (at least here in the UK) to give birth naturally, from both their peers and health professionals. How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. My wife (an epidemiologist) deliberated for months over having our second by VBAC (vaginal birth after csection) and opted to go for it, due to the overwhelming expectation from everyone around her that she should d…

> How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself. I'm sorry for your loss. Caesarian's costs the NHS around £1,700 a time compared with £750, for a normal childbirth and women also stay in hospital for twice as long on average. There is a general presumption in the UK that avoiding what is an invasive operation is preferable for both baby and mother alike, in the absence of other factors.…

Vaginal delivery is associated with better outcomes for the child too. IMO that makes it not strictly the mother's choice. Indeed surgical procedures should never be entirely elective.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#79

Post by amykyta »

rayiner wrote: post #64

Relevant counterpoint: http://www.skepticalob.com/2018/03/what-if-c-sections-are-be... . The article doesn’t actually say why C sections are bad, it presupposes that fact, and assumes that rising C section rates must indicate some sort of “epidemic.”

I would describe that post as propagating junk science. It’s cherry picking stats and skewing them. Odds ratio difference for pelvic organ issues for women who have a C section vs natural delivery. That’s just establishing strength of association. It’s surprising that there is any association for women who have a c section. The ‘safer for babies’ paragraph makes the claim that 692 babies would be saved if 1 million women chose c-section over natural delivery. So 0.069%? I hear you about wanting to be skeptical but there is conclusive research on negative effects to children who are delivered via c section. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2017/10/14/... Not to mention that it’s a massive surgery for the mother with all the inherent risks of one.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#80

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #64

Relevant counterpoint: http://www.skepticalob.com/2018/03/what-if-c-sections-are-be... . The article doesn’t actually say why C sections are bad, it presupposes that fact, and assumes that rising C section rates must indicate some sort of “epidemic.”

Caesarians are way more dangerous than vaginal births. A C-section patient can die of pulmonary embolism from the blood clots from the procedure, directly from bleeding (the surgeon can nick an artery or the incision can lacerate during the actual birth), the wound can get infected (it's quite a large wound), and, of course, it's major surgery, so the anaesthesia can kill you (even if you're not all the way under; my wife had a near miss when our first was born). The risks get worse in subsequent Caesarians.
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