Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic' • Hacker News Board

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#21

Post by jakelazaroff » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:16 AM UTC

grecy wrote: post #7

My sister-in-law just had her first baby, and got very into all of these statistics and the "medical industrial complex take on childbirth" I believe the WHO recommends around 10-15% of births should be C-Section in a healthy population, but the figures in first world countries are at least 3-5 times that. There are about 3 million stories of ladies "booking in" their birth a month or three in advance. I.e. I want my…

> Also tons of stories of doctors wanting to go home for the weekend or to play golf, so they do a C-Section after only an hour of labor so they can hurry it up.

There is a world of difference between a doctor pressuring a woman to have a C-section because it's more convenient for them, and a woman freely choosing to have one for her own reasons.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#22

Post by KaiserPro » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:19 AM UTC

vladgur wrote: post #19

sergers wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A lot of 30+ women decide they don't want to piss their pants and have painful intercourse for the rest of their lives." Not specifically only for those reasons, my wife always wanted a c-section birth due to the risks with vaginal birth and recovery times.

I would imagine the recovery times for c-section are longer

Depends.

If you have a tear (1/4 chance) it can take longer to heal, but it's not as debilitating in the short term. It doesn't affect your ability to get out of bed, as much.

However a bad tear will have long lasting impact on your life. Incontinence, infection, painful sex, amongst a whole host of other problems.

C-section has a higher risk of infection, There is significant muscle damage to, which limits your ability to lift and sit up. In terms of pain (emergency c-section compared to a 4b tear, the wife says the c-section was easier to recover from. )

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#23

Post by KaiserPro » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:23 AM UTC

ertand wrote: post #4

I wonder what its correlation with induction is. Artificially inducing labor does not tend to give the body enough time to adjust and progress.

[citation needed]

induced labour happens in so many different ways, that broad statement is not going to fly.

Also there are many way to induce labour, none of them are quick. Some take a few hours, others days.

For example a "sweep" is where someone goes in and stretches the cervix, with their hands. There are pessaries too. None of it is quick.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#24

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:25 AM UTC

vladgur wrote: post #19

sergers wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A lot of 30+ women decide they don't want to piss their pants and have painful intercourse for the rest of their lives." Not specifically only for those reasons, my wife always wanted a c-section birth due to the risks with vaginal birth and recovery times.

I would imagine the recovery times for c-section are longer

Possibly not always true.

Women are fairly frequently given episiotomies. This is intended to prevent vaginal tearing, which is far more harmful than a clean cut and much harder to repair and much more likely to leave a bad scar. Scars in the genitals can be pretty unpleasant. Scar tissue in female genitals tends to not want to cooperate with that whole sex thing.

Furthermore, sutures in the genitals make it impossible to comfortably or safely sit. They can become infected or tear open when you are using the toilet. You are typically given a stool softener to try to reduce the odds of tearing your sutures post partum.

Taking care of sutures in the outer genitals is inherently challenging. You can't see them without help of a mirror and they are difficult to reach for purposes of tending to them.

I imagine sutures across the lower abdomen are, in many cases, a piece of cake compared to that.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#25

Post by Tuna-Fish » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:26 AM UTC

vladgur wrote: post #19

sergers wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A lot of 30+ women decide they don't want to piss their pants and have painful intercourse for the rest of their lives." Not specifically only for those reasons, my wife always wanted a c-section birth due to the risks with vaginal birth and recovery times.

I would imagine the recovery times for c-section are longer

You would imagine wrong.

Smoothly cut, cleaned and expertly closed up wounds heal a lot faster than ripped tissue that doesn't even get properly cleaned because it's in there somewhere.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#26

Post by sambe » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:42 AM UTC

Several papers were released as part of a series, and are available currently in full text form:

https://www.thelancet.com/series/caesarean-section

The more sensational language being reported appears to come from the FIGO position paper rather than the research. I’m not sure about the relationship between the two but they look to have been published together.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#27

Post by Synaesthesia » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:43 AM UTC

jobigoud wrote: post #18

harry8 wrote: post #8

Ok so no mention of the health implications of so called "natural" childbirth, which aren't trivial and have an increasing risk as your age. No mention of the rising age of mothers in wealthy countries. No mention of different trade offs for fit 19 year olds and less active 35 year olds. A lot of 30+ women decide they don't want to piss their pants and have painful intercourse for the rest of their lives. Word gets a…

If we perfect the art of surgery to a point where it's painless/seamless/benign it won't even be a question, it seems so much more efficient and clean. Open, extract, close.

There are a number of factors which make natural childbirth better, the mother recovers much quicker, a day or two vs weeks. There are things that happen during vaginal childbirth with hormones released by mother and child which do not happen with c-sections, like the bacteria which transfers from mother to child which is essential for gut function.

The baby is also prepared for birth during the process and is more awake and able to suckle faster with natural birth.

https://www.mamanatural.com/natural-birth/

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#28

Post by Synaesthesia » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:44 AM UTC

harry8 wrote: post #13

grecy wrote: post #7

My sister-in-law just had her first baby, and got very into all of these statistics and the "medical industrial complex take on childbirth" I believe the WHO recommends around 10-15% of births should be C-Section in a healthy population, but the figures in first world countries are at least 3-5 times that. There are about 3 million stories of ladies "booking in" their birth a month or three in advance. I.e. I want my…

"natural" like half of women dead in childbirth natural?

When there are problems, you operate. Otherwise it’s preferable for natural birth for mother and baby, for reasons mentioned above.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#29

Post by DanBC » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:50 AM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #27

jobigoud wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we perfect the art of surgery to a point where it's painless/seamless/benign it won't even be a question, it seems so much more efficient and clean. Open, extract, close.

There are a number of factors which make natural childbirth better, the mother recovers much quicker, a day or two vs weeks. There are things that happen during vaginal childbirth with hormones released by mother and child which do not happen with c-sections, like the bacteria which transfers from mother to child which is essential for gut function. The baby is also prepared for birth during the process and is more a…

There's no evidence for bacteria transfer, and some children have been harmed by mothers taking vaginal mucus to transfer bacteria after a c section.

Re: Doctors warn of alarming C-section 'epidemic'

#30

Post by danw1979 » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:56 AM UTC

Women feel enormous pressure (at least here in the UK) to give birth naturally, from both their peers and health professionals.

How a baby is delivered is none of anyone's business but the mother herself.

My wife (an epidemiologist) deliberated for months over having our second by VBAC (vaginal birth after csection) and opted to go for it, due to the overwhelming expectation from everyone around her that she should do it naturally, and despite having read an Australian study indicating higher rates of stillbirth during VBAC [citation needed]. Sadly, our daughter didn't make it through the labor.

Needless to say, the csections that safely delivered my first, and recently (yay) third children seem like a miracle of modern medicine to us both.

Even before this personal tragedy, I was astounded by the sheer force of opinion surrounding the cesarean section and childbirth in general. This is creating an environment where women are not able to make their own choices and I fear that the doctors in this article, however well meaning, by warning of an "epidemic" are only adding fuel to this fire.