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A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

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Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly in Texas I would be extra careful. Either way, have someone standing outside to advise the homeowner or cops what is going on. Also call the police ahead of time and tell them what you intend to do. Maybe even ask for an officer to assist.

Better get a friend with a firearm to stand guard at the door if you must take that kind of measure. US police are ill-disciplined, trigger-happy and uninformed about the law.

> friend with a firearm at the door ... US police are trigger-happy

I cannot imagine why anyone would agree to be the first target on site. That seems like a very easy way to get killed or injured.

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#152

>But despite adjusting firewall settings for over 100,000 users, Alexey says that only 50 users reached out via Telegram. A few said "thanks," but most were outraged. Have to wonder if those "outraged" users are ones who would have proactively fixed it themselves, or if they would've let their router happily continue to chug away as part of a botnet.

Every now and then, when I am bored, I reverse engineer some of my phishing emails (Linkedin message, Fedex parcel etc). Very often I find that the phisherperson has embedded a rogue document (often .php) in a legitimate server. Sometimes I send a polite email to the admins of these sites warning them about the injected file. I NEVER received a thank you from any of these people. I don't care - I am not doing it for…

Lawyers. Lawyers have done this and not the internet.

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#153
post #15

Devices at vulnerable routerOS version and not already compromised would not be vulnerable if the firewall was enabled. It's that simple. Not great that these boxes used to ship in this default state and I can _understand_ a home user unfamiliar with what they're dealing with but what reason is there for deploying infrastructure this way at an ISP or hospital or whatever org?

I think there's still a lot of blame on Mikrotik for having such bugs in their management service and other daemons. I explicitly opened up the winbox port to be able to remotely manage Mikrotik routers I deploy (I considered their VPN implementations to be an even higher attack surface), as did many other admins it seems. The winbox protocol supposedly runs over TLS and requires a username/password before anything i…

Creating named address lists on Mikrotik routers is pretty trivial, so it's easy to create Remote_FW_Access_Allowed and add several remote IPs or netblocks to it. Then set up a firewall rule to allow Winbox (or other) port access from that address list (using an address list instead of a Src Address is on the Advanced tab when setting up the firewall rule).

Using source address lists with short timeouts it's also easy to set up port knocking - first port connection attempt adds to "Knock1" for 5 seconds, second port connection attempt from an IP on "Knock1" adds to "Knock2" for 5 seconds, (repeat for X knocks), connection attempt from an IP on "KnockX" adds to "Fully_Knocked" for (duration) (or "none static" for a permanent add). You can also do both a temporary add with a duration and a separate "Has_ever_knocked" with no timeout to build a list of all remote IPs that have ever fully knocked.

The UI could certainly be more friendly, but I think that's because they're avoiding having things that can only be set up from the command line.

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#154
Not sure what they mean by "mysterious". He isn't hiding and never was. He posted his photo, name and other personal details in articles about MikroTik on Russian IT blogging platform[1]. His name is Alexey Sopov, 34, from Novosibirsk. Quick search revealed his social network accounts:

https://fb.com/100005153643926

https://vk.com/lmonoceros

[1] https://habr.com/post/353530/

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#155

> As for MikroTik, the Latvian company has been one of the most responsive vendors in terms of security flaws, fixing issues within hours or days, compared to the months that some other router vendors tend to take. It would be unfair to blame this situation on them. Patches have been available for months, but, yet again, it is ISPs and home users who are failing to take advantage of them. A system that requires users…

As opposed to Microsoft ramming updates down your throat whether you like them or not, and whether they break things or not? The lock on your house door is 'opt-in'. If you don't lock it and someone steals something, is it the lock manufacturer's fault? The home builder's fault? Did they construct an insecure house? Ignorance of the proper operation of the lock is not an excuse not to lock it and doesn't shift the re…

The pervasiveness of insecure systems is not a justification for designing an insecure system.

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#156
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not at all negative. Imagine parent telling some underground rebel group that their revolution would be more successful if they organized it with Jira. Meanwhile, this concern is so far away from the rebels, who are doing just fine with pen and paper, and are more concerned with basic needs like surviving undetected. People are of course excited by this initiative, and wish to contribute how they know. Except…

I think you have a point, but unfortunately I didn't get it from your first comment as well. It read as a pretty negative comment. It sounds like the point that you are making is reasonable, though, and unfortunately one that I see play out with a lot of FOSS projects as well. I remember a talk one time where a project lead essentially made the point that every new talk is met with a lot of "I'll setup CI for you" an…

Note: I was not the original poster: his comment simply rang very true to me; "lean" is being a motif in my work, as the complexity of precious time and resource management increases.

Contributions are all well-intentioned, but they cost resources, especially if you're not great at ruthlessly filtering out, or don't want to, for any reason; they generate a lot of heat where this energy can't be used.

Also well-intentioned contributors will set up grandiose structures, with no intention other than "to help", but no actual will to carry the actual work out. This usually turns out a wasteland after a while, which is not so much a problem until you realize you have to support it; or worst, it over-shadows the original, leaner-but-actually-productive intent.

> For some reason there is a natural desire among some to organize the organizing before the thing to be organized really exists.

I think this is why we have so many engines which have no games written for it :D

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vulnerabilities are almost unavoidable. Leaving a management port on a router open to the entire internet is a very bad practice. Would you leave an RDP port open to the world? If you require remote access, at least restrict it to known management IP addresses.

Why is it that vulnerabilities are almost unavoidable? I’m not trying to be a smart-ass; I’m an analyst at an MSP and I’m doing my first pen-test soon. I’m under no illusions that my job title or growing responsibilities make me a security expert (or anywhere near it). Is it because the software stack is just too complex for network programmers to handle? (Not that router OSes are the only pieces of software that hav…

In my book, the problem is that vulnerabilities are usually of two kinds - bugs or more specifically unintended and unexpected interactions between different subsystems. Bugs are like the use after free in a kernel modifying a little state, leading to ASLR circumvention leading to RCE.

Unintended system interactions are bigger in my opinion, since they tend to combine bugs across systems, or they even combine multiple unintended system interactions into bigger and more complex unintended system interactions. These things grow wild - some of the things people do with meltdown, rowhammer are wild and just enable even crazier things. On a higher level, things like server side request forgery, dns rebound attacks to circumvent firewalls are powerful tools to make existing attacks more powerful. I'm no where near an expert, just an interested admin, but a lot of these mechanics are wild.

Now where's the point to all that rambling?

Point is, most software is written and grown in very uncontrolled ways. Software outside of aviation or the space sector is written to get done, and if bugs occur, they do occur. A lot of software systems are running huge stacks with massive components - again to get done - and no one is scrutinizing all of the interactions going on in there.

With my product hat on, that's fine. Selling things is a good way to get paid. But from a security point of view, most software systems are just waiting to grow big enough until the right people care and it'll be ugly.

This is also why I largely consider our application servers to be overly resource hungry remote shells. Puts me in the right mindset.

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#158

> As for MikroTik, the Latvian company has been one of the most responsive vendors in terms of security flaws, fixing issues within hours or days, compared to the months that some other router vendors tend to take. It would be unfair to blame this situation on them. Patches have been available for months, but, yet again, it is ISPs and home users who are failing to take advantage of them. A system that requires users…

It takes effort to purchase, install, and configure MikroTik products rather than just using the router/AP combo you got from your ISP. Anyone who has done that is capable of patching occasionally. [EDIT:] And actually now that I've read TFA I learn that many of these are actually "edge" routers used by ISPs on their own premises. There's no excuse for an ISP not to keep up with patches.

They have hardware targeted towards average consumers also.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAEFK6MH2...

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAEFK6D86...

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#159

>But despite adjusting firewall settings for over 100,000 users, Alexey says that only 50 users reached out via Telegram. A few said "thanks," but most were outraged. Have to wonder if those "outraged" users are ones who would have proactively fixed it themselves, or if they would've let their router happily continue to chug away as part of a botnet.

RIP in peace Adrian Lamo

Re: A mysterious grey-hat is patching people's outdated MikroTik routers

#160

> As for MikroTik, the Latvian company has been one of the most responsive vendors in terms of security flaws, fixing issues within hours or days, compared to the months that some other router vendors tend to take. It would be unfair to blame this situation on them. Patches have been available for months, but, yet again, it is ISPs and home users who are failing to take advantage of them. A system that requires users…

OTOH people would scream bloody murder at a router that installed firmware updates and rebooted itself without asking. Just look at the reaction to how Windows 10 handles updates.

One PC operating system's poor implementation of automatic updates does not mean automatic updates can't be implemented gracefully on a router.
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