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Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

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Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>furthermore, the evolutionary pressure for an improved rubisco is so immense that if it were possible we'd probably see it in nature. I disagree with this logic, as one could apply it to any theoretical biologic feature. The fact that random-walking evolutionary processes haven't stumbled upon a more optimal solution has nothing to do with whether such a solution exists or is easy to find.

Specifically, the gradient crawl that evolution gives must yield viable organisms among every step. If something is within a local maxima that cannot be climbed out of while remaining viable, then evolution can't do anything by definition. That doesn't mean that a better global maxima doesn't exist, and an organism engineered to a better state.

In such incredibly high-dimensional landscapes, such a thing as "local maxima" basically does not exist (you need a local minimum in every single dimension at once). Not to mention that in this case it's not a continuous fitness landscape - you can make wild jumps in each evolutionary step, so the situation of "maximum that can't be climbed out of under given constraints" is even harder to come by.

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#82

Wait, how long does it take to 'heal'? Didn't see that in the article, and it's pretty crucial with regards as to how useful this can be.

As long as it heals at least a little faster than it naturally weathers this would be amazing for all sorts of things. Imagine if you could just paint steel with a coating that's as durable as hot dip galvanizing.

...until the sugar fuel in the coating runs out.

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#83

Oh man, here comes the grey goo.

I say, bring on the grey goo! It's simply a distillation of life's ultimate purpose, so why not use a more efficient version?

Greetings, fellow human! I, too, am excited by the idea of an emergent material phenomena somewhere between oil spills and a small pox pandemic!

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it heals at least a little faster than it naturally weathers this would be amazing for all sorts of things. Imagine if you could just paint steel with a coating that's as durable as hot dip galvanizing.

...until the sugar fuel in the coating runs out.

That's why I chose galvanization as an example. The coating acts as an anode until it's consumed.

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#85
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to know where all the glucose comes from!

Carbon dioxide? Isn't the whole point of photosynthesis to turn CO₂ into glucose?

I think I got confused ... either getting the Krebs Cycle the wrong way around or confused about where the ATP came from... Possibly the latter, this will teach me to comment about half remembering biology from over 25 years ago... However my original poorly explained thought stands there needs to be an extra component that will be consumed like ATP or H2O...

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#86
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Sunlight alone can't pull a significant amount of water out of the atmosphere, and plants/bacteria need additional energy in the form of sugars to pull carbon out of CO2 in the air. Where's all this energy coming from?

>plants/bacteria need additional energy in the form of sugars to pull carbon out of CO2 in the air. Sorry perhaps this is not what you meant to write. For anyone who wants an unmangled understanding of photosynthesis please consult Wikipedia or other text of your choice.

Yes! I am pretty sure that I got confused ... either getting the Krebs Cycle the wrong way around or confused about where the ATP came from... Possibly the latter, this will teach me to comment about half remembering biology from over 25 years ago whilst still half asleep ..

However my original poorly explained thought stands there needs to be an extra component that will be consumed like ATP or H2O...

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#87
post #27

So, the self filling water bottles don't work because of the energy required to extract H2O out of the air is excessive (think how much electricity is required for your dehumidifier) ... Extracting carbon from the CO2 in the air is going to need a heap more, I would have thought. I'm not a physicist though, would be glad to be proven wrong. It does sound very much like a "solar freaking roadways" type effort though.

Plants extract carbon from CO2 all the time. This material is using photosynthesis so I would assume it works close to as well as it does in plants.

Indeed I think I got confused ... either getting the Krebs Cycle the wrong way around or confused about where the ATP came from... Possibly the latter, this will teach me to comment whilst half asleep and half remembering biology from over 25 years ago...

However my original poorly explained thought stands there needs to be an extra component that will be consumed like ATP or H2O...

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#88
post #29
post #23

> The chloroplasts are not alive but catalyze the reaction of carbon dioxide to glucose. That reaction also consumes water. So, would you need to regularly mist the material with a spray bottle to keep the self-healing going?

I want to know where all the glucose comes from!

They include it in the mix:

> The material the researchers used, a gel matrix composed of a polymer made from aminopropyl methacrylamide (APMA) and glucose, an enzyme called glucose oxidase, and the chloroplasts, becomes stronger as it incorporates the carbon.

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#89
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carbon dioxide? Isn't the whole point of photosynthesis to turn CO₂ into glucose?

I think I got confused ... either getting the Krebs Cycle the wrong way around or confused about where the ATP came from... Possibly the latter, this will teach me to comment about half remembering biology from over 25 years ago... However my original poorly explained thought stands there needs to be an extra component that will be consumed like ATP or H2O...

Yes, water. The simple, high school biology version of photosynthesis is: 6CO₂ + 6H₂O + light -> C₆H₁₂O₆ + 6O₂. ATP is what plants get from burning that glucose.

Re: Self-healing material can build itself from carbon in the air

#90
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I got confused ... either getting the Krebs Cycle the wrong way around or confused about where the ATP came from... Possibly the latter, this will teach me to comment about half remembering biology from over 25 years ago... However my original poorly explained thought stands there needs to be an extra component that will be consumed like ATP or H2O...

Yes, water. The simple, high school biology version of photosynthesis is: 6CO₂ + 6H₂O + light -> C₆H₁₂O₆ + 6O₂. ATP is what plants get from burning that glucose.

Yes, but that's (your chemical reaction) a very simple explanation of photosynthesis.

The reactions in chloroplasts , according to Wikipedia at least, is much more complex. It seems that it's a multi-purpose process that eventually results in glucose.

I'm happily not a biologist.

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