Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

lareviewofbooks.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 210 posts

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#21

Post by alienfluid »

fredley wrote: post #16

> Yeah, actually, one thing that’s really interesting is that Facebook is not a normal company, in the sense that its valuation when it went public wasn’t based on how much money it made, which is what would normally happen with a business. It actually somehow talked the SEC into creating this other category, where it would be valued based simply on how much it was used, just on user engagement. And I think that was…

Wut. The SEC doesn't dictate how a company is valued - it's up to the markets and the participants. There is no "right way" to value a company.

Not sure what the author is talking about.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#22

Post by zaarn »

decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

I personally favor the federated model.

In there, you can have some communities that run co-op and some that are free to use. It also makes the ecosystem more open compared to centrally managed software, even if it's transparent and without dark patterns.

(Plus, how do you police it if you're talking about a company that is well versed in the art of 'taking it over the line by 1 inch per year')

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#23

Post by nobody271 »

Jaron Lanier is an interesting character. He's not just a smelly hippy. He's pretty smart but I don't buy into him being a "Silicon Valley Philosopher". No one can predict the future.

Anyways, for a rip roaring good time I highly recommend this debate on artificial intelligence featuring Jaron (https://youtu.be/Qqc0t8ghvis). On the opppsing side is Martine Rothblatt (male turned female, inventor of satellite radio, found a cure for the previously incurable disease her daughter had!). The panelists are definitely capable of producing novel ideas.

I view Jaron as going by his feelings more than anything. Like I doubt he has some statistical evidence for any of his claims. But I can't help but agree with him on this.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#24

Post by edhelas »

decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

In some extends this is what the Movim project (https://movim.eu/) is building for several years now. A light solution that you can deploy on a server and that handle the communication of a small community (10 to a few hundreds people).

The good thing is that it relies on XMPP for all the communication, therefore all the instances are still connected to each others allowing communication between all the users of the network and with all the existing XMPP applications.

It offers social features (publications, blog, comments), chat (chatrooms, stickers...) and video-conferencing.

P.S. I'm one of the contributor of the project.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#25

Post by lotsofpulp »

fredley wrote: post #16

> Yeah, actually, one thing that’s really interesting is that Facebook is not a normal company, in the sense that its valuation when it went public wasn’t based on how much money it made, which is what would normally happen with a business. It actually somehow talked the SEC into creating this other category, where it would be valued based simply on how much it was used, just on user engagement. And I think that was…

Even trying to interpret in the most charitable way, I can't view what the author is writing as making sense in any way.

Just because the SEC allows a metric to be used doesn't mean investors are going to use it, and most definitely are not forced to use it in how they calculate the value of the shares they are purchasing. The fact that Facebook has amazing profit margins, ability to scale, and great revenue numbers also undermines the author's point.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#27

Post by TeMPOraL »

binarnosp wrote: post #10
decasia wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thought about the article is that basically the author has gotten too negative. He is so distracted with attacking the ad-supported social software we have that he gave up thinking about the software we need.

We don't need software to socialize. Some tasks of our life can be taken over by software, but others should stay with us. Especially with the advent of AI, engineers are racing to automate everything: from suggesting us new friends, new music, with which dresses we look smart, and so on. Automating everything will cause the atrophying of our skills and we will become a bunch of lonely depressed, smartly dressed user…

To some extent yes, but then again, social media is public billboard meets address book. There's nothing in there that fundamentally shouldn't be automated, it's just the sum of those parts that enable a new dimension in social interaction.

Also: we don't need software for most things in life. But we like software, as it usually makes things better.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#28

Post by darkerside »

decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

I'm not a big government advocate, generally speaking, but enacting this at a federal level, would be akin to a modern day postal service. Social media communication without the bells and whistles--or the obsession with engagement. I'd be all for it.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#29

Post by TeMPOraL »

narrator wrote: post #8

I saw an absolutely epic debate between Jaron and a Singulatarian. He totally called them out on being religious in that they were just trying to make a geek version of the Christian rapture. I agree that the guy is like RMS in that he is an original thinker who works from first principles and that tends to give him an understanding that is unique and worth listening to. BTW, Speaking of RMS and Jaron, is there some…

Thinking singularity is geek rapture isn't really original thinking, it's just regurgitation of a cliché. Now dead blog by Steven Kaas had a nice article, listing reasons why this comparison is not valid.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110718031848/http://www.acceler...

I won't quote the long list of arguments, just a tangential remark:

"It’s also interesting to think about what would happen if we applied “Rapture of the Nerds” reasoning more widely. Can we ignore nuclear warfare because it’s the Armageddon of the Nerds? Can we ignore climate change because it’s the Tribulation of the Nerds? Can we ignore modern medicine because it’s the Jesus healing miracle of the Nerds? It’s been very common throughout history for technology to give us capabilities that were once dreamt of only in wishful religious ideologies: consider flight or artificial limbs. Why couldn’t it happen for increased intelligence and all the many things that would flow from it?"

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#30

Post by Maximus9000 »

decasia wrote: post #7

The thing I keep thinking is that I want to have social software built on a co-operative model (like a food co-op): you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?), and the software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance (which nee…

> $5/year/user

I think facebook has each user valued at about $200USD/year. A 2016 article from the Guardian puts it at $60/year... so I'm not sure which number to believe.

https://www.kqed.org/news/11661387/heres-how-much-you-are-wo...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/28/how-much-...

Post reply on HN