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Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

theguardian.com

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Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#31

Post by icebraining »

adrianN wrote: post #29
icebraining wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a capitalist economy, why would anyone maintain a forest? Because you own the forest and want it to keep producing income? That said, a non-capitalist model would probably work better, since implementing the full capitalist solution (by allowing people to sue polluters, who harm them and their property) is politically infeasible.

Pristine rainforest produces very little income compared to cleared land that can be used for agriculture.

Sorry, I edited the post later.

Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#32

Post by titzer »

danielecook wrote: post #12

Whatever happened with the idea of using drones to plant 1 billion trees? I was in Iceland earlier this year - a country largely devoid of trees. There aren’t any because the Vikings chopped them all down. Despite the cold - however - they do grow there albeit much slower then elsewhere. In any case, it seems to me we could be seeding a lot of barren locations so they’ll become forests within 20 years.

> using drones to plant 1 billion trees?

sigh, more tech. Personally I think humans owe a debt of a little elbow grease here and sitting on the sidelines with a remote control seems a bit soulless and detached. Dirt under your fingernails will teach you a lot.

> a country largely devoid of trees.

Forests need to bootstrap entire ecosystems, a process that can take thousands of years. It'd be like trying to load an OS off an encrypted DVD into RAM and just jumping to it. It needs to be booted in the right way.

(https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/20/climate/icela...)

Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#33

Post by barry-cotter »

mc32 wrote: post #2

Deforestation is a great issue in developing economies. It's something which must be addressed. What's not mentioned is that human population growth is the main driver of this pressure. Given our abilities to manage disease and such, more efforts should go into educating women in developing allowing them to become more independent and have more control over their reproduction. When people move from agrarian societies…

China’s population isn’t stable. Every single Han majority state has below replacement fertility, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong King, Macau and China proper.

The post WW2 history of Taiwan strongly suggests that the one child policy was unnecessary. It was brutal, evil and unnecessary.

Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#34

Post by jplayer01 »

CalRobert wrote: post #17

Meanwhile even a country normally viewed as responsible is cutting down ancient forest to get to the coal beneath. Bit of a double whammy. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/09/berlin-startup...

Man, the arguments I've had with Germans about getting rid of nuclear. It's ridiculous. Instead, now we're incredibly reliant on coal and gas because there's no way we can cover our base load, much less 100% of our energy needs, with renewables.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/l...

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/l...

This is incredibly depressing.

Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#35

Post by ElBarto »

barry-cotter wrote: post #33
mc32 wrote: post #2

Deforestation is a great issue in developing economies. It's something which must be addressed. What's not mentioned is that human population growth is the main driver of this pressure. Given our abilities to manage disease and such, more efforts should go into educating women in developing allowing them to become more independent and have more control over their reproduction. When people move from agrarian societies…

China’s population isn’t stable. Every single Han majority state has below replacement fertility, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong King, Macau and China proper. The post WW2 history of Taiwan strongly suggests that the one child policy was unnecessary. It was brutal, evil and unnecessary.

China's population doubled in 50 years. It is estimated that the One Child policy prevented 400+ million extra increase.

It's not possible to draw equivalence between Taiwan and the mainland. The mainland's population exploded after WWII. It has more than doubled since 1950.

Using words like 'evil' is emotional, not rational.

Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#36

Post by d33 »

iNerdier wrote: post #13
danielecook wrote: post #12

Whatever happened with the idea of using drones to plant 1 billion trees? I was in Iceland earlier this year - a country largely devoid of trees. There aren’t any because the Vikings chopped them all down. Despite the cold - however - they do grow there albeit much slower then elsewhere. In any case, it seems to me we could be seeding a lot of barren locations so they’ll become forests within 20 years.

Sheep. They’ve tried and sheep tend to eat all the saplings. Unlike in other places the sheep are not penned in, they’re free to roam which means any area you want to try and re-forest in a fairly hostile environment to begin with has to be expensively fenced off until they get to a fairly good size.

Perhaps the solution should also involve drones?

Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#37

Post by TomMarius »

sampo wrote: post #19
CalRobert wrote: post #17

Meanwhile even a country normally viewed as responsible is cutting down ancient forest to get to the coal beneath. Bit of a double whammy. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/09/berlin-startup...

George Monbiot opines that Germany has never been particularly responsible: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/19/world-...

I agree, it's an image they purposefully built for themselves since the Prussians, but I don't think it's the reality.

Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#38

Post by TomMarius »

titzer wrote: post #32
danielecook wrote: post #12

Whatever happened with the idea of using drones to plant 1 billion trees? I was in Iceland earlier this year - a country largely devoid of trees. There aren’t any because the Vikings chopped them all down. Despite the cold - however - they do grow there albeit much slower then elsewhere. In any case, it seems to me we could be seeding a lot of barren locations so they’ll become forests within 20 years.

> using drones to plant 1 billion trees? sigh , more tech. Personally I think humans owe a debt of a little elbow grease here and sitting on the sidelines with a remote control seems a bit soulless and detached. Dirt under your fingernails will teach you a lot. > a country largely devoid of trees. Forests need to bootstrap entire ecosystems, a process that can take thousands of years. It'd be like trying to load an O…

Dirt under your fingernails doesn't scale. If it did, it'd have happened already. We need solutions, not attachment.

Re: Scientists say halting deforestation 'just as urgent' as reducing emissions

#40

Post by krageon »

lucidguppy wrote: post #39

Number one cause for amazon deforestation is cattle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_ra... All the more reason to go vegan.

Or don't keep cattle in the rainforest. Not every problem with cattle has to be solved by making an impractical and enormous swing in your life.
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