A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother • Hacker News Board

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#91

Post by fellellor » Mon, Oct 08, 2018, 7:28 AM UTC

iamshs wrote: post #90

fellellor wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just plain bullshit. He called them harijans which from today's cultural standpoint looks patronizing, but he had nothing but altruistic intentions for them and wanted the caste system gone.

Ok, change my view. Quoting him directly, “I believe that caste has saved Hinduism from disintegration. One of my correspondents suggests that we should abolish the caste system but adopt the class system of Europe, meaning that the idea of hereditary castes should be rejected. I am inclined to think that the law of heredity is an eternal law and any attempt to alter it must lead to utter confusion. Hindus believe in…

I guess you are right. But that isn't going to reduce the role he played in India's Independence movement or the momentum he gave to the formation process of independent India. I will argue that the strength he gave to the peaceful formation of the republic later on facilitated the anti caste movements by later politicians in independent India.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#92

Post by mintplant » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 5:56 AM UTC

jsiepkes wrote: post #59

DoreenMichele wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that's completely socially unacceptable to say: The real thing that put Hitler in power to begin with was the horrendous war reparations Germany was saddled with from WW1 because it was "last man standing" on the losing side. You get called a Nazi sympathizer and things like that for trying to provide that context, but to my mind that is the real reason they said "Never again" and instituted global protecti…

> The real thing that put Hitler in power to begin with was the horrendous war reparations Germany was saddled with from WW1 because it was "last man standing" on the losing side. I live in the Netherlands and I remember being thought that in school as one of the reasons of Hitlers rise to power. The Dutch wikipage [1] of the Versailles treaty also reflects this in a section called "consequences of the treaty" (De ge…

Same, in the US (Louisiana and then California).

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#93

Post by chrisco255 » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 6:09 AM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #17

qubax wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the worl…

1943 - the British were in engaged in a multifront war against Germany, Italy, and Japan with their very survival in doubt. Then, Japan cut off a major food supply to Bengal. Blaming this all on Churchill is a bit much.

Yeah, Churchill may have been controversial at times, but he was absolutely the best possible person to lead Britain at that moment at that time. It just boggles my mind that people try to flatten people of history and cast them in a very specific shadow, out of context of the world, events, and viewpoints of the moment.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#94

Post by robhu » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 7:25 AM UTC

jsiepkes wrote: post #59

DoreenMichele wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that's completely socially unacceptable to say: The real thing that put Hitler in power to begin with was the horrendous war reparations Germany was saddled with from WW1 because it was "last man standing" on the losing side. You get called a Nazi sympathizer and things like that for trying to provide that context, but to my mind that is the real reason they said "Never again" and instituted global protecti…

> The real thing that put Hitler in power to begin with was the horrendous war reparations Germany was saddled with from WW1 because it was "last man standing" on the losing side. I live in the Netherlands and I remember being thought that in school as one of the reasons of Hitlers rise to power. The Dutch wikipage [1] of the Versailles treaty also reflects this in a section called "consequences of the treaty" (De ge…

This was also part of my UK education on why Hitler rose to power.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#95

Post by _cerv » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 10:22 AM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #93

tomohawk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1943 - the British were in engaged in a multifront war against Germany, Italy, and Japan with their very survival in doubt. Then, Japan cut off a major food supply to Bengal. Blaming this all on Churchill is a bit much.

Yeah, Churchill may have been controversial at times, but he was absolutely the best possible person to lead Britain at that moment at that time. It just boggles my mind that people try to flatten people of history and cast them in a very specific shadow, out of context of the world, events, and viewpoints of the moment.

It seems to be a trendy Twitter thing to shit on the legacy of Churchill after Scott Kelly’s tweet quoting him. Churchill was probably just as bad or even worse than Hitler and to put even the faintest of a positive light on any of his achievements and fruits of his leadership at the time just shows how racist you are.

I’m being hyperbolic, but I’m also fucking frustrated that we tear down figures of history whith honrible qualities into the ruins of racists and despots. Would the world have been a better place without Churchill?

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#96

Post by FranzFerdiNaN » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 10:43 AM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #93

tomohawk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1943 - the British were in engaged in a multifront war against Germany, Italy, and Japan with their very survival in doubt. Then, Japan cut off a major food supply to Bengal. Blaming this all on Churchill is a bit much.

Yeah, Churchill may have been controversial at times, but he was absolutely the best possible person to lead Britain at that moment at that time. It just boggles my mind that people try to flatten people of history and cast them in a very specific shadow, out of context of the world, events, and viewpoints of the moment.

When Stalin starved millions of people we invented a completely new word for it, when Churchill does it it's barely 'controversial'.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#97

Post by chrisco255 » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #96

chrisco255 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Churchill may have been controversial at times, but he was absolutely the best possible person to lead Britain at that moment at that time. It just boggles my mind that people try to flatten people of history and cast them in a very specific shadow, out of context of the world, events, and viewpoints of the moment.

When Stalin starved millions of people we invented a completely new word for it, when Churchill does it it's barely 'controversial'.

Churchill didn't invent famines for crying out loud. It wasn't an evil plot on his part. The year was 1943...the entire world was at war...maybe you heard about it. The Japanese cut off supplies. Lots of people were being murdered, Britain might not have even survived but for Churchill. War is fucking hell. You have to make trade-offs and decisions that lead to real deaths and the consequences are felt for centuries after. Boy you name one leader of any war torn nation that has never made zero mistakes.