Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots • Hacker News Board

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#191

Post by afuchs » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:21 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #104

knieveltech wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what is Econ 201's solution to pervasive unemployment, or lack of spending power due to underemployment? Is that also classified as "societal value"?

I'm not sure if you have noticed, but unemployment is at a multi decade low. We are not seeing pervasive unemployment, we are seeing the opposite. A situation where there are too many jobs, and not enough workers to fill them So econ 201 would say that there isn't any societial problem right now.

Off the top of my head, I can think of the "disappearing middle class." The trend seems to be that anyone that would have previously found themselves with a place in life, that placed them below the upper middle class rich but above the working poor, are either becoming significantly richer or significantly poorer.

For perspective, a lot of households have seen a large increase in their wealth. Comparatively, the vast majority of food stamp recipients actively participate in the work force but still need government assistance. While it appears that there are many jobs available, it also appears that these jobs don't pay enough to allow the people who work them to live outside of a life of poverty.

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#192

Post by bostonvaulter2 » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:26 AM UTC

dvcrn wrote: post #156

I love uniqlo doubling down on tech. One thing I found really interesting is that inside the labels are small rfid (I think?) chips. At the cashier, the person just folds them nicely, puts the pile of cloth on a metal pad and the system tells you how many items and how much it is. No manual code scanning!! The first time I noticed that I felt like a kid again discovering something magical. The next step was to have p…

Do those tags stay on the clothes afterward? Or are those external to the clothes?

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#193

Post by toyg » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:33 AM UTC

existencebox wrote: post #134

krrrh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They teach you economic history and show that predictions of pervasive unemployment and lack of spending power caused by technical innovation have been made every decade and never been borne out as new ways of delivering societal value are constantly being invented. In Econ 301 they teach you to never say never. Whether this time is different than the previous rounds of automation or will have larger dislocative effe…

This may be a slight tangent, but I always took the interpretation of Metropolis as one of humans being _reduced_ to the level of machines (and in some ways subservient to them), less in replacement; the "moloch" scene comes to mind. The only robot in the movie seemed more an analog for questions of humanity, blurring the line of human and machine, and additionally touching on the whole classic "reviving a loved one"…

> humans being _reduced_ to the level of machines (and in some ways subservient to them)

Oh, you mean like Uber and Deliveroo drivers?

In the last century, humans served machines. In this century, they will serve algorithms.

Lang's work is more relevant than ever. In many ways we are re-living the events of 100 years ago, only this time the US are in the driving seat, rather than Europe.

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#194

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:48 AM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #30

sharkweek wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lower class gets bigger and bigger, and is either kept just happy enough to not revolt or... At some point this boils over and the ultra wealthy are forced to redistribute wealth either through new political policy or by violent force.

> At some point this boils over and the ultra wealthy are forced to redistribute wealth either through new political policy or by violent force. There's also the dystopian possibility that automated forms of social control are developed neuter the ability of any kind of popular political movement from challenging the elites. That automation could be anything from systems of censorship, surveillance, and propaganda to…

>automated forms of social control are developed

Legalisation of drugs fits in here IMO, it's a salve for the people to keep them from mounting rebellions. Making hard drugs cheap and widely available probably is a relatively effective way of killing off a proportion of your poorest citizens without raising too great an alarm.

Things like VR could placate the people too, give them a fake "luxury existence" and they're less likely to rebel.

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#195

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:51 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #124

cgag wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe this isn't going to be a problem?

People have predicted that it would be a problem every year for the last hundred years. And those people were all proven false. How many times do the same predictions have to be proven false before we don't take them seriously anymore? People won't do that though. We will continue to hear the same predictions for another hundred years, and every time the people making will say "but this time it's different!"

You're right, energy resources are limitless so there's no possibility a system based on ever growing consumption could possibly fail. /s

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#196

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #181

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, clothing is a commodity. Whatever benefit Uniqlo shareholders get from this will be short-lived as clothing prices drop around the world, benefiting all clothes buyers (everyone) at the expense of a textile workers, who -- at least for the time being -- can easily find a job elsewhere. At some point, automation might be a cause for concern. But I really don't think this is that type of headline...

My argument is that this effect is small, diluted, and doesn't admit a strong positive feedback loop. Whereas the effect of sudden unemployment with no social safety net or training can trigger a strong negative feedback loop. You have the potential for strongly negative outcomes concentrated on a small number of people. Now the question becomes, "is that a bad thing?" My answer is yes, because the forces that produc…

[deleted]

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#197

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 1:01 AM UTC

jrowley wrote: post #23

excalibur wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There would probably need to be rental services/financing options for those who can't afford to buy one outright.

Uber and others offer leases to drivers now. I'm sure the same could apply.

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Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#198

Post by jpetso » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 1:05 AM UTC

darkstar999 wrote: post #32

x220 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>move to another job And when that job gets automated?

We used to be 90%+ farmers. We'll find a way.

If we can't find a way conventionally, at least there's always the option of becoming desperate, voting for populists and going to war sometime. After the war is over, there will also be more work because we've destroyed a shitload of infrastructure that now has to be rebuilt. Problem solved!

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#199

Post by EpicEng » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 1:08 AM UTC

knieveltech wrote: post #98

ColanR wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing they don't teach you in Econ 101 is that treating corporations as obligated to keep and preserve jobs prevents them from creating societal value, and treating workers as entitled to a job disincentivises the invention of new methods of creating societal value. It causes stagnation of the economy.

And what is Econ 201's solution to pervasive unemployment, or lack of spending power due to underemployment? Is that also classified as "societal value"?

Perhaps you should go ask a blacksmith. btw, unemployment is extremely low currently.

Re: Uniqlo cut 90% of staff at one warehouse by replacing them with robots

#200

Post by stickfigure » Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 1:08 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #182

stickfigure wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your typical consumer will receive very little or no direct benefit from this change Eh? I've shopped at Uniqlo in SF. Compared to buying clothes at hipster boutiques, it was shockingly affordable. I'd say whatever they are doing is unquestionably offering a direct benefit to the consumer.

You already receive that benefit. Will prices go down as a result of this automation? Will the freed resources be cleanly rerouted to other activities? Hell no, if there wasn't an article you'd never have noticed.

Will prices go down as a result of this automation?

They almost certainly will; that's just ECON101. I'm sure H&M and Zara aren't just sitting around admiring themselves in the mirror.

Clothing is a weird market but there is definitely an elastic low-end and Uniqlo is playing in that space. There's no reason to believe the rules of basic economics are not functioning.