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The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

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Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#251

Post by s3nnyy »

snovv_crash wrote: post #194
vinay427 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of insurance plans in other industries have deductibles in other countries, and the US certainly isn't unique in this respect. For example, deductibles are the norm in health insurance plans in Switzerland, which has a system not all that different from that in the US.

In Switzerland the deductible is annual, not per visit. Once you hit that cap, everything is free (except voluntary cosmetic stuff). Thus, insurance actually acts like insurance, like car insurance or fire insurance, there to catch you in a bad situation, not to give you discounts on your day-to-day expenses.

It's not like this in the US?

In Switzerland there is a deductible for adults but everything connected to pregnancy and child-birth is deductible-free. Also, kids below 18 yrs old have mandatory insurance that is has no deductible, thus treatments for them are free.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#252

Post by neuronic »

afpx wrote: post #138
neuronic wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you came from wealth, or you’re definitely in the top 1% of your peers, maybe set your expectations a bit lower. Why should any of us set our expectations lower? Because you say so? Why is the best piece of the cake reserved to some 1% folks largely with inherited wealth? Why should 1 billion Chinese set their expectations lower? Because they happen to not be born in Silicon Valley and their father doesn't r…

I’m just providing an alternative perspective. It’s certainly not a mandate. If you know that you’re exceptional, then by all means go be exceptional. But, the vast majority of people aren’t exceptional. And, the truly exceptional are probably out there working their ass off right now, not reading HN. High expectations = high chances for disappointment. I was exceptional in high school. One day a teacher bluntly told…

> And, the truly exceptional are probably out there working their ass off right now, not reading HN.

I think this is where our differences in viewpoints really emerge. I certainly do not want to contest that there are exceptional individuals who fundamentally have a vastly more profound impact on the development of the human civilisation.

However, it seems like you want to assign special conditions and resources to those who, in your view, deserve them - and to them only. Everyone else should take a step back and not demand stuff they haven't earned.

This view is fine, but I disagree that it is realistic or even possible to establish true meritocracies as long as you stand by values of liberalism. You have to take away the individuality of people itself in order to achieve a system in which its inhabitants are content with getting what they deserve. And that is because the meaning of "deserve" is then required to be centrally controlled rather than a subjective viewpoint that is different for 7.5 billion people.

So a Chinese farmer might find they "deserve" the same quality of healthcare as Jeff Bezos simply on account of being human. Others might argue that you should have to work and contribute to "earn" your cancer treatment. Both have merit.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#253

Post by gutnor »

maeln wrote: post #70
gutnor wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does healthcare insurance pay for that in the US ? In the EU, this is considered a personal life-choice procedure and very rarely handled by insurances - like cosmetic surgery. (being the EU though, you can get it for free using public healthcare)

It's not the case in most EU country I visited. In France, giving birth is 100% free, even if you have to go to a private clinic/hospital.

There may be a confusion here, I'm referring at Private Healthcare and not Public Healthcare run by a private company.

Spain sometimes subcontract public healthcare to private hospital. However from a patient point of view, you are still treated as a public healthcare patient (i.e. you pay through your tax and the government has a specific financial agreement with the company running the hospital).

Otherwise I'm confused by France model. What's the business model of a Private Hospital is they receive no money neither from the Government nor insurances nor their patient ?

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#254

Post by tptacek »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #250
kasey_junk wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I’m not some anti single payer guy. In fact given the option I’d bet on it being the best of the options. But it’s just untrue that you paid $0 to have a kid. You don’t know how much you paid & that’s ok. But it’s a valid criticism of single payer. Further it is also true that the US system has deep flaws but it’s fundamentally untrue that the many Americans get the full boat costs of a birth. So comparing your…

The article says that people in the U.S are not having children because of prohibitive costs, 15000 dollar bill from a hospital was mentioned somewhere. Various Europeans said they paid 0 in their country, somebody said that even in Europe you pay and the cost is approximately the same (the implication being that you pay a bill, not a tax) which is quite the lie and prompted me to join the people saying hey, we pay 0…

You can't call people names on this site and claim to be "appropriately civil". And his point isn't a gotcha argument. The Dutch system might be better, and it's probably cheaper overall given what a terrible deal health care is in the US, but it isn't free, and there's a significant economic tradeoff to it. I don't know why it takes you four paragraphs to try to wiggle out of that observation; it took the other commenter just a few tens of words to make his point.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#255

Post by paulddraper »

manquer wrote: post #248
paulddraper wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today education is getting priced using value pricing, if in theory you can get a job which pays X you can pay sum of multiple of X Doubtful. If that were true, you would pay differently for a English degree than a Chemical Engineering degree. And I've never seen that.

That is surprising to me. In my country the cost of english degree is totally different than a chemical engineering degree. Even without the commercial angle , the cost of teaching English is not remotely the same as chemical engineering, you need lot more labs , more depts with different expertise , more courses to cover etc. why is it costed the same ? Unless both are heavily subsidized and cost is a just token amo…

And that is from India?

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#256

Post by phkahler »

cjmb wrote: post #199
RobertoG wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he is missing it, it's kind of the point of what is saying: the price is disconnected of the cost, it's a function of the money available to the customers who are, also, a captive market. In standard economic teaching, Is not this what happens when there is a cartel acting?

Hey, OP of the article here, didn't realize someone submitted it here too! Yeah, this is exactly a rephrasing of the point I was trying to get across.

Toward the end you said because you paid off your loans in 2 years instead of 10 that they didn't charge enough. I understand that seems to be how they think, but it's just not right. That's the problem.

It reminds me of when I realized that banks have an interest in balancing income from issuing more loans with default rates. Someone responded who was close enough to banking to say that they were aiming for about a 7 percent default rate as optimal. In other words, lower lending standards until you're at that rate for optimal profit. These forces are obviously financially good for the institution, but bad for the public. We need to find a way to fix that and the only thing I can think of is educating people on how they are getting screwed so they can make their own judgements on when to participate in such games.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#257

Post by snovv_crash »

s3nnyy wrote: post #251
snovv_crash wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Switzerland the deductible is annual, not per visit. Once you hit that cap, everything is free (except voluntary cosmetic stuff). Thus, insurance actually acts like insurance, like car insurance or fire insurance, there to catch you in a bad situation, not to give you discounts on your day-to-day expenses.

It's not like this in the US? In Switzerland there is a deductible for adults but everything connected to pregnancy and child-birth is deductible-free. Also, kids below 18 yrs old have mandatory insurance that is has no deductible, thus treatments for them are free.

In the US the deductible is different depending on the treatment required. Defeats the purpose of insurance in my opinion.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#258

Post by s3nnyy »

snovv_crash wrote: post #257
s3nnyy wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like this in the US? In Switzerland there is a deductible for adults but everything connected to pregnancy and child-birth is deductible-free. Also, kids below 18 yrs old have mandatory insurance that is has no deductible, thus treatments for them are free.

In the US the deductible is different depending on the treatment required. Defeats the purpose of insurance in my opinion.

So if you have a disease/accident that costs $100k to treat, how much is the deductible? If it's like $5k, it's okay.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#259

Post by TomMarius »

hef19898 wrote: post #218
TomMarius wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last time I checked, the US was among the most expensive countries regarding health care. But I don't have a source at the moment. Yes, but that's comparing listed prices and not adjusted for purchasing parity. They will substantially reduce the price if you're not insured and ask them. > And again, all legal residents are eligible for health care in EU countries. A good thing if you ask me. I tend to agree, but th…

I higjly doubt the last part, but I don't have any numbers. Just as some added cintaxt, the actual ciats are also quite different between European countries. And treatment is not the only cost driver, the way the system is set-up also has a big impact. One of the reasons why Germany is also constantly among the most expensive countries.

But the costs are different across the US as well. Of course it costs a lot in San Francisco, just like it would cost a lot in a major EU city - and it costs less in a rural area.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#260

Post by etiennemarcel »

gutnor wrote: post #253
maeln wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the case in most EU country I visited. In France, giving birth is 100% free, even if you have to go to a private clinic/hospital.

There may be a confusion here, I'm referring at Private Healthcare and not Public Healthcare run by a private company. Spain sometimes subcontract public healthcare to private hospital. However from a patient point of view, you are still treated as a public healthcare patient (i.e. you pay through your tax and the government has a specific financial agreement with the company running the hospital). Otherwise I'm conf…

The French system is hybrid. There's public and private health insurance, and public and private hospitals.

For everyday care the public health insurance reimburses 70% and the private health insurance the remainder.

For more serious procedures (such as a baby delivery) the public health insurance reimburses 100% of the fees. The prices are fixed by law, the practitioner can charge more (if it's a private hospital) but then the private health insurance will have to pay the difference.

The public health insurance is paid through taxes (I think something like 5 to 10% of the salary?) and the private health insurance is between 50 to 100e depending on your family and coverage (glasses, teeth, etc.)

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