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H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

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Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#361

Post by tabtab »

pteredactyl wrote: post #360
tabtab wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies don't want to train: they want Instant Workers. Often they want combinations of skills that are unlikely to be had by any one individual. They want version X of the database, vendor Y of the IDE, vendor Z of the network, etc. Shopping the world increases the chances of fitting their desired skill combo via shere probability; it has almost nothing to do with training. Think about it.

I agree. And for the companies it makes sense to not want to train. I'm saying the onus is not on them. But on the US education system. K-12 and beyond.

That won't work either for the "combo-hunting" problem. One cannot predict specific company combos ahead of time when in school. Plus, companies want practical experience, not classwork experience. I'm at a loss for an easy to way to explain the "combo problem" at the moment.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#362

Post by docker_up »

f6e9ed793b wrote: post #188
docker_up wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't much savings in terms of health care. In Ontario, if you're working you have to pay a health care tax that is similar to what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company. And then the health care is much worse in terms of responsiveness. For example, I have Kaiser, and my Canadians friends are envious at how quickly I get scheduled for procedures. My family and friends have had to wait months for so…

> In Ontario, if you're working you have to pay a health care tax that is similar to what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company. You must be comparing California monthly costs to Ontario yearly costs. Maximum Ontario annual premiums are $900.[1] To get equivalent coverage (by equivalent, I mean in terms of insurance value - as in, I won't have a $15,000 copay if I get into a serious accident) from Kaiser…

I did say "what an employee would pay at a Silicon Valley company." I pay no monthly premiums, but if I added my wife, it's about $100/month. So you verified what I said above.

And your point about being "fooled" is disingenuous. Canadians pay for their health care through their taxes, so the amount is much higher as well than the health care tax which is nominal.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#363

Post by [deleted] »

t1o5 wrote: post #267

This news has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Not everyone moves to Canada after they get a residency thru the Express Entry system. The majority of them do something called "soft landing" to activate their permanent resident card and go back to US the same day. They use Canada as a plan B if something happens with their greencard process in future. This is actually detrimental for other eligible people who have ap…

[deleted]

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#364

Post by stale2002 »

3pt14159 wrote: post #196
dominotw wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> preparing to migrate to Canada or Australia. I know lot of ppl who have been dreaming of this for years but money and opportunity here in US is too good to pass up. 99% of ppl on H1B are not starting companies. Most ppl just don't have the appetite to slash their income by half. "preparing" doesn't count as a example.

The half-of-salary thing is a bit rich. Tech people unknowingly push up their second or third sigma downside in America and cost of living is hard to compare. In America you're more likely to get violently harmed. More likely to become truly poor. More likely to develop life-long medical conditions. Don't have actuarially balanced government pension (SS accounting is off book, CPP is fully funded). Higher net-debt-to…

All of the problems that you mention pretty easily solved by having money. And in the US, programmers are much more capable of getting that money in the first place.

For example, the chance of getting violently harmed, is solved by living in a good neighborhood.

The problem of healthcare is solved by paying for good health insurance. The issue of retirement is solved by putting lots of your money into a retirement account.

Life really is quite amazing for people in the upper 10%, in america. And programmers easily fall into that category.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#365

Post by pteredactyl »

tabtab wrote: post #361
pteredactyl wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. And for the companies it makes sense to not want to train. I'm saying the onus is not on them. But on the US education system. K-12 and beyond.

That won't work either for the "combo-hunting" problem. One cannot predict specific company combos ahead of time when in school. Plus, companies want practical experience, not classwork experience. I'm at a loss for an easy to way to explain the "combo problem" at the moment.

Fair but why should a certain nation or place be better at solving the combo problem than another?

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#366

Post by echan00 »

chocolatebunny wrote: post #8
echan00 wrote: post #3

True story, I know of many skilled folks who moved to Canada because residency in the U.S was just too painful.

For what it's worth, I know many skilled folks (myself included) who moved from Canada to the US because there are more job prospects with significantly higher pay. I hope all these people make Canada more competitive since I'd like to move back at some point but right now, the US is more cost effective if you can get in.

Yes, that is also true. Its why I'm still in the Bay Area.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#367

Post by bdamm »

dominotw wrote: post #344
bdamm wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to ignore the trolls. The phrase "simply move back" is always a clear flag that someone has no idea what they're talking about.

Ok man. whatever. I know tons of ppl who moved back, to start their own business, to take care of aging parents, to retire, for their kids schooling. It is really a viable option if you become "truly poor" in USA.

Sure, but its also a big sacrifice that is a larger sacrifice than, say, moving to another state. Sure, people do it, but it's expensive, time consuming, disruptive, and stressful. And there are additional financial implications such as currency exchange and repaying debts (if you care about your old credit rating) in a different currency, along with transmitting money across borders. Not everyone can just cash out debts.

So yeah, it's possible, but it is no walk in the park.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#368

Post by tabtab »

pteredactyl wrote: post #365
tabtab wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That won't work either for the "combo-hunting" problem. One cannot predict specific company combos ahead of time when in school. Plus, companies want practical experience, not classwork experience. I'm at a loss for an easy to way to explain the "combo problem" at the moment.

Fair but why should a certain nation or place be better at solving the combo problem than another?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. And often there's no reciprocal "combo-hunting" because of labor rates. India in general does not want "reverse" H1B's, for example. The US pays more than India such that Indians are more likely to want to participate in USA's labor pool than vice versa because Indian wages would be small if exported/returned to the USA.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#369

Post by mitul_45 »

I'm an Indian living in Amsterdam just because of these immigration rules.

My spouse is an Architect and she won't be able to work in the US due to H4 rules and in Canada because they don't accept the academic credentials for her foreign university. I find Europe a little better option in that regard.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#370

Post by zaptheimpaler »

btilly wrote: post #356
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a history of stripping people of their citizenship when things get bad, regardless of what the law says. It has happened before with Mexicans, it is happening again right now [1]. [1] https://www.vox.com/2018/8/30/17800410/trump-passport-birth-...

That is not "regardless of the law". That is "when it can be argued that the law does not apply". The law itself is solid. Whether a particular person with paperwork issues will be given the presumption of the facts being in their favor is another story.

My point is the law is not nearly as clear cut and black and white as you make it out to be. It provides a lot of room for judgement and interpretation by those carrying it out in most cases. And unless a particular matter comes up before a court, "when it can be argued that the law does not apply" does not happen either - the immigration officer makes a decision and 99% of immigrants do not have the resources to fight it in a court. Believe me, neither your average CBP officer nor your average immigrant is very well versed in the minutiae of the law.

The end result is people can and do lose their citizenship status pretty often. Debating whether it is strictly unlawful is really besides the point.

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