The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth • Hacker News Board

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#221

Post by CM30 » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 6:34 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #97

He misses what I consider a major issue. The price of college education is going up much faster than the cost of providing it. If you look at tuition vs what a professor is paid, one goes up much faster than the other. If you look at housing costs things don't add up either - renting an apartment seems to be a source of revenue for the schools. These are the obvious places the schools are making a ton of money - wher…

Makes me wonder if all the facilities and staff and extras and what not may be why college tuition in the US is so much more expensive than in many other places, like in Europe. Cause it seems like US colleges are trying to be mini towns offering everything and the kitchen sink, whereas the average UK uni is built in such a way you'll have to leave the campus to get access to those things. Over here it feels like the universities are part of the town, whereas over in the states they may as well be the town.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#222

Post by chrisco255 » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

JauntTrooper wrote: post #90

gambiting wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if I understand it correctly, for some unfathomable reason American health insurance policies usually have a deductible on them - so even if you are insured, you could still be paying few thousand dollars out of your pocket, no? That's insane.

My wife's C-section delivery in the Bay Area cost ~$2,100 out of pocket. We had very good insurance.

Bay Area is arguably the most expensive place in the country, so it's not indicative of U.S. as a whole.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#223

Post by InclinedPlane » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #209

annabellish wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the linked article is trying to explain is that the opposite is true. It isn't that everyone wants to live in the trendiest areas, it's that they _have_ to in order to find a job that has any hope of paying off their debts fast enough for them to save up enough so that when the next huge expense comes through they can afford it... likely taking on more debt even so. It isn't that everyone wants a degree - certai…

> but if you don't have one then you don't even have a chance of making enough savings to afford housing, healthcare, education for your children, et cetera. Where does this idea come from? According to the OECD, only 48% of American adults have a post-secondary education. I find it hard to believe that 52% of Americans truly cannot afford housing, healthcare, education for children, etc. I might even bet that the 52…

The median age in the US is 38. Half of the population is older than that, since 27% of the population is under 18 that means nearly 70% of the adult population is over 38, about 45% is over 50, and about a quarter is over 60. Those older folks had the benefit of higher wage jobs in their early careers, and were able to build their careers, job experience histories, and income levels much faster than later generations. Additionally, because of the much lower costs of housing they were able to build their wealth at a much faster rate.

Someone who is 60 years old or older today (which again makes up fully 1/4 of the adults in the US) would have seen average (nominal) wages of about 12k/yr and would have been able to jump into a mortgage only a few years after entering the job market, on a home price of just 60-100k. With a 30 year mortgage they would today be living with a fully paid off house worth easily half a million dollars, and would have had one to two decades of being able to plow their former mortgage payments into investments. Those people have no problem paying for housing, healthcare, children, etc.

It's folks who were born after 1980 who face lower wage jobs with higher requirements, higher costs of education, higher housing costs, higher medical costs, etc. And face an uphill battle in terms of building their careers, increasing their income, and building their wealth.

As to your point about college educations, it is much more difficult to obtain a high paying job without college. And study after study show that college educations result in higher incomes. You might claim that colleges select for the most successful people, which skews the results, but that doesn't change the fact that most desirable and well paying jobs still list college educations as requirements.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#224

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

Balgair wrote: post #219

lotsofpulp wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to planned procedures such as giving birth.

Human childbirth is an amazingly complicated process with a LOT that can, and frequently does go 'wrong'. In CA, the first-birth c-section rates range from 15% to 60%, hospital depending [0]. That's 1/6th to 3/5ths of all CA first births, let alone the obvious fact that you cannot plan a birthday. Your pregnancy can go from 'low' risk to 'life-threatening' in seconds; there is no planning for this and no hospital wil…

I know all of those things can happen, but for people with health insurance, the out of pocket max will kick in at that point. But if you are healthy and want to get a lower bound on how much you'll need to pay you can request that information.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#225

Post by paulddraper » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

manquer wrote: post #213

phkahler wrote: post #97

He misses what I consider a major issue. The price of college education is going up much faster than the cost of providing it. If you look at tuition vs what a professor is paid, one goes up much faster than the other. If you look at housing costs things don't add up either - renting an apartment seems to be a source of revenue for the schools. These are the obvious places the schools are making a ton of money - wher…

The fundamental problem is that education was priced traditionally priced using a cost + plus or a %cost basis what you can pay. Today education is getting priced using value pricing, if in theory you can get a job which pays X you can pay sum of multiple of X. The second problem is that even if this was a reasonable system, people estimate the risk associated with getting the job paying X very poorly, colleges explo…

> Today education is getting priced using value pricing, if in theory you can get a job which pays X you can pay sum of multiple of X

Doubtful. If that were true, you would pay differently for a English degree than a Chemical Engineering degree. And I've never seen that.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#226

Post by WalterSear » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

poulsbohemian wrote: post #192

WalterSear wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not 'slightly better' though, IME.

FWIW: many community colleges in my area are beginning to offer BA/BS degrees. I've seen data that shows students who get their two-year degree are often able to get into better 4-year schools than they would have had they applied straight from high school. Certainly given the cost, community colleges make a great deal of economic sense, though are perhaps held back by reputation.

Universities give preference to community college students for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of the education they have received.

They tend to be older and more focused on their education; to have already demonstrated that they can complete 2 years of basic coursework without dropping out; and have mostly completed their general education classes, meaning they are much less of a drain on the institution. None of these reasons demonstrate 'better-than-average' quality of community college education, just the quality of the kind of students that pursue it successfully, and where they are in life when they apply somewhere else.

The very strategy of doing your first couple of years (ie - the general stuff you can teach yourself from the text book) before going somewhere else to your final degree belies the argument that the education is 'better than average'.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#227

Post by nobody271 » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 7:18 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #212

nobody271 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I would roll my own side gig once. The plan was to find broken cars on Craigslist and fix them for a profit. We're talking things like needs an engine or a transmission. I could do maybe ten a year. I'd be keeping a car out of the junk yard (which I imagine is good for GDP in a very small way) and making a very modest profit of $10,000/yr if I was lucky. Well it turns out that is HIGHLY regulated. You need…

I think it would be in society's interest to know the credibility of someone repairing and selling 2 tons of metal that will go out on the road and pose considerable risk to others' and the driver's lives on the road. See the limo crash that just killed 18 in New York state. There might be situations where corrupt government is inhibiting competition for the gain of particular parties, but some things do make sense,…

The bond, I think, is mainly for if someone sues you. For a $1000-$2000 car $75,000 is overkill. They could make a class for people who aren't dealers where you only need to buy a bond for the car you are selling or something like that.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#228

Post by poulsbohemian » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 7:43 PM UTC

megaman8 wrote: post #216

frockington wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity where are you living where the public school are so bad the only alternative is 300k+? I live in a larger midwestern city and the public schools are decent. Some students will go to Harvard, most go to a respected state school, some don't go to college

In some parts of SF, you don't even have the option of sending your kids to Public school, because they won't let anyone else in: all seats taken. They have a pretty massive shortage of teachers because no one can afford to live there. At that point, your only choice is private school or move.

Whaaatttt???? I don't doubt what you are saying, but not living in SF / Bay Area I've never heard this. Can you provide a citation / more information?

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#229

Post by Balgair » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 7:49 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #224

Balgair wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human childbirth is an amazingly complicated process with a LOT that can, and frequently does go 'wrong'. In CA, the first-birth c-section rates range from 15% to 60%, hospital depending [0]. That's 1/6th to 3/5ths of all CA first births, let alone the obvious fact that you cannot plan a birthday. Your pregnancy can go from 'low' risk to 'life-threatening' in seconds; there is no planning for this and no hospital wil…

I know all of those things can happen, but for people with health insurance, the out of pocket max will kick in at that point. But if you are healthy and want to get a lower bound on how much you'll need to pay you can request that information.

Maybe, it depends on the insurance provider; I've had ones that won't quote anything to me, not even a flu shot. Still, a lower bound is of little solace when talking about healthcare, especially your unborn child. It's the upper bound that is the issue.

Re: The Bermuda Triangle of Wealth

#230

Post by poulsbohemian » Tue, Oct 09, 2018, 7:52 PM UTC

ghobs91 wrote: post #95

What happened around 2000 that caused the accelerated growth in tuition?

This is purely my unscientific, though information-based opinion... I graduated in 2000. Basically, an arms race started, as elite schools could afford to make it "free" to attend, others jacked up their tuition to become "elite" in their own way, online education was going to eat the bottom end (so to speak), and any college that wanted to stay in business had better ramp up their appeal. I think what you'll observe was beginning in about that time, there was a massive building boom, as each school tried to provide nicer dorms, facilities, etc in order to compete with other schools. Along with this was a significant boost in administrative overhead across schools, for reasons I've not quite understood - my guess is that in a drive to compete on quality, in came the middle management.