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H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

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Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#51

Are people with GCs screwed too? I've been postponing getting a citizenship, for no particular reason, but I'm now wondering if I should get on that just so that I don't somehow get bounced out of the country or get locked outside when I travel.

Green Card has a risk of deportation that citizenship does not. But the current administration is working to make citizenship revocable.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#52
post #33
post #16

I suppose my comments from yesterdays thread about "Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atmosphere" is relevant: I did the math for Toronto(which is more expensive than Montreal, and about the same as Vancouver). For a typical software engineer, taxes take away 25% of gross pay in Ontario while it's over 30% in California and New York. Cost of living is much less(by 30-40% if you rent) in Toronto compared t…

This assumes you live in the highest CoL areas in the US. If you live outside of the Bay Area or NYC you take home significantly more than in Canada. In Canada you NEED to live in high CoL areas like Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal to get work.

Montreal is significantly cheaper to live in than either Vancouver[0] or Toronto[1]. I'm not sure what low CoL areas in the US are commanding high wages, but CoL is way lower in Montreal if you compare to places like Boulder, CO [2] or Dallas, TX,[3] which apparently have good tech scenes [4].

[0] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

[1] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

[2] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

[3] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

[4] https://www.stoodnt.com/blog/top-student-cities-in-the-us-ou...

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't care about money, they want to raise family in a safe environment, I interview a lot of foreigners and there is clear trend that they don't want to go to the US with the current administration.

Are the countries these workers coming from so much more unsafe than the US or Canada? Otherwise, I think people do care about the money (as they should!).

[deleted]

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#54

Canada's aggressively merit based immigration policy has clear advantages in terms of allowing talent in. That said Canadian tech firms still pay way too little.

Some might draw a connection between Canada's open doors policy for skilled immigrants, and the low salaries paid.

I don't think it's the primary reason.

The Canadian tech sector doesn't make nearly as much money as their US counterpart does. The country has very few dedicated software companies, and none the caliber of the FAAMGs. For comparison, the largest software company in Canada by revenue earns $1.7B, Google is in the neighborhood of $120B a year.

Google/Microsoft/Facebook/Apple/etc are each individually orders of magnitude larger than the entire Canadian software industry combined. Chances are, that most metro areas in the US have a technology company larger than the biggest Canadian tech companies.

If Canada went from having a billion dollar tech sector to having a trillion dollar one, then salaries for engineers would explode.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#55
post #16

I suppose my comments from yesterdays thread about "Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atmosphere" is relevant: I did the math for Toronto(which is more expensive than Montreal, and about the same as Vancouver). For a typical software engineer, taxes take away 25% of gross pay in Ontario while it's over 30% in California and New York. Cost of living is much less(by 30-40% if you rent) in Toronto compared t…

Yes and no. For a new grad its still not hard to get an initial job offer in the excess of 200k TC in the Bay. If you're a DINK that's 400k. There are simply no jobs that a fresh grad can get paid that much in Canada. And thats not even factoring in future cash flow from working in the Bay (better prospects, prestige etc). Also currency, it sucks. Everything is more expensive. You can't get anywhere without 1-2 stops…

As someone in the big 4 I can tell you 200k TC in SV is nowhere near 200k annually starting out. That would involve 70-80k in RSU that vest over 4 years, and in companies like Amazon(whose stock has been going up like crazy) that is divested 5%, 15%, 40% and 40% annually, so you get the bulk of it only later on.\

It wasn't long ago that Google was offering 100k base in the valley(where If you want to maximise disposable income, you'll end up with much more at Seattle or Austin than in the bay or New York.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#56

> As the administration of President Donald Trump has increased scrutiny of H-1B visas Has it? All that has been done is a study of potential H-1B reforms that is still under way. I'd bet that nothing changes in the next two years. The puppet masters wouldn't want it any other way.

Here is what has already changed :

1. All extensions are treated as fresh applications. This means you might be at same job for 15 years but if denied you are fcuked. Sell your home, pull your kids out of school and go back to India. (Affects only Indian people)

2. H4-EAD might be rescinded. Hence not one employs them or has plans to fire existing employees.

3. RFEs. Almost 70% applications for both fresh and extensions are getting Requests for Additional Information. This is like pissing on yourself to keep yourself warm and has been the main cause of why USCIS has suspended premium processing.

(Rumours are that Premium Processing concept will be done away with in Decemeber completely.)

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#57
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't care about money, they want to raise family in a safe environment, I interview a lot of foreigners and there is clear trend that they don't want to go to the US with the current administration.

Are the countries these workers coming from so much more unsafe than the US or Canada? Otherwise, I think people do care about the money (as they should!).

It's very likely that pay in Canada is a lot higher than many people's home countries (e.g. India). So it's more a calculation of "high pay + security + life benefits" in Canada and "even higher pay but nothing else" in the US.

Canada makes a lot of sense. A lot of these people aren't just economic migrants, they are looking to settle down and start new lives. No immigrant in their right mind would do that in the US right now (if they have a viable alternative).

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#58

While many in the comments are throwing salary/cost of living/taxes numbers left and right but no one is making a case for extreme winters in Canada vs the Bay Area. I can understand that it might not mean a lot to some but for me it can be a deal breaker.

Hmm yeah hard winters or having your spouse deported. Hard choice.

I feel like the number of tech people who legitimately worry about their spouse being deported is extremely small. And it's only two years until the next election anyways.

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#59
post #2

As horrible as it sounds, in this specific respect, the current US administration has been really fantastic for Canada. More and more new grads are choosing to stay in the country and work with local tech companies, and we're experiencing a reverse brain-drain like never before.

My wife ruled out a US PhD precisely because of the negative signals about getting a work visa for her or for me. Canada is welcoming her with open arms

Re: H-1B: As immigration furor roils Silicon Valley, Canada smooths way for techies

#60
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't care about money, they want to raise family in a safe environment, I interview a lot of foreigners and there is clear trend that they don't want to go to the US with the current administration.

Are the countries these workers coming from so much more unsafe than the US or Canada? Otherwise, I think people do care about the money (as they should!).

> Are the countries these workers coming from so much more unsafe than the US or Canada?

Perhaps - but other than gun violence, if I went back home several things would be unsafe.

Money can buy a lot of things, but it takes more money to buy a first world lifestyle in India than it takes to do it in Canada (or even the US, as surprising as it sounds).

Buying clean smoke free air and water you can drink out of the tap might not feel like luxuries, but that's priced in here (& even there, this is by no means perfect - see Flint).

And at least, I've yet to be stopped by a cop who wanted a bribe.

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