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Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

nytimes.com

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Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#191

Post by the-pigeon »

skybrian wrote: post #128
bilbo0s wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google (and "SV") have spent 2 decades telling everyone about their open and selfless ideologies. People bought it. They went to work for Google instead of a bank... Let's inject a little honesty into this discussion. People didn't flock to google et al in droves because of google's selfless ideology. That was coincidental. People flocked to google because they wanted to get rich. Especially in the early days when…

At the time I joined Google, I wouldn't have chosen to work on Wall Street or for Microsoft, but Google seemed very safe from an ethical point of view. Ads were just text links and none of the things people complain about had happened yet. (I also thought I was joining too late to make much from stock options and was... wrong about that, though it took a while.) Google left China after I joined. What other company wo…

But Google left China because the Chinese government wouldn't let them operate in a way that was profitable. It had nothing to do with ethics if you read beyond the PR speak.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#192

Post by adamur »

debacle wrote: post #189
adamur wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wanting to change the world makes me a "dudebro"?

That's not what the OP said. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus#Explana...

It is what he said, you even linked the correct logic behind it.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#193

Post by MrEfficiency »

drb91 wrote: post #123
michaelt wrote: post #4

I think this makes a good deal of sense. The tech job market is extremely buoyant in the present age, meaning very few programmers are in a position where they have to settle for a job they dislike just to make ends meet. I mean, every tech company talks about wanting engaged, passionate, proud employees - so why settle for doing work you can't take pride in when you could switch to work you could be proud of, and pr…

This actually points most at developers being considerably underpaid.

This makes the most sense.

Consider how every industry can benefit from having a developer doing job automation, looking at data for optimization, or making new products.

The demand is ferocious.

I don't understand why developer wages are lower outside the US. Shouldnt developers everywhere be changing local industries?

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#194

Post by MrEfficiency »

rhodysurf wrote: post #106
fsloth wrote: post #33

For the over the decade I've been a software engineer I've always strived to work in products with a value proposition for the end user that I can understand. I can't understand how anyone could work without this understanding and not get their soul crushed. Maybe I'm just sensitive or underpaid.

I enjoy my job (a lot), but I work to live, not live to work. As long as my job pays me well enough and I am only work ~40 hours a week with a flexible schedule I could care less what I am programming most of the time. My passions can live in my free time.

Similar, I make a pretty boring product, but at home I'm building a dishwasher, a finance app, and I run a popular website.

I wouldnt work for a defense contractor, but I have a high paying, 'boring' day job.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#195

Post by indigochill »

ryandrake wrote: post #163
philwelch wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most "techies going to work for google" or any other tech firm, are not going to get rich, in the Bill Gates or Larry Ellison sense. You're describing 2 of the 10 richest billionaires in the world. Most people in general are not going to get that rich, most rich people are not going to get that rich, and nobody is going to get that rich by joining a company that has 100 or more employees already. Gates, Ellison, Al…

We can agree that a successful conversation on this topic requires a shared definition of “rich”. I just don’t think the fleeting wealth that comes with able-bodied employment counts. Rich implies some level of financial independence. One is rich if they can stop working immediately and maintain their existing standard of living indefinitely. This definition includes many more than just the top 0.01% but does not inc…

Well, the only gate from $500k a year to financially independent is spending. In my current situation, if I made that much I would happily retire with an improved standard of living in about a year. But I also value financial independence above most other things, so I'm spending less than 1/10th of that per year.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#196

Post by skybrian »

the-pigeon wrote: post #191
skybrian wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the time I joined Google, I wouldn't have chosen to work on Wall Street or for Microsoft, but Google seemed very safe from an ethical point of view. Ads were just text links and none of the things people complain about had happened yet. (I also thought I was joining too late to make much from stock options and was... wrong about that, though it took a while.) Google left China after I joined. What other company wo…

But Google left China because the Chinese government wouldn't let them operate in a way that was profitable. It had nothing to do with ethics if you read beyond the PR speak.

I don't know where you got that from. They got blocked and hacked.

Also, there are ethical considerations in everything. They don't disappear when profit is involved.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#197

Post by neolefty »

majewsky wrote: post #134
neolefty wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still like Google. I never worked there, but "cataloging the world's information and making it available for free" is still great. It's complicated yes, but Google — more than any other tech company — has empowered me to do the things I care about. Mainly by making information easy to find.

> cataloging the world's information and making it available for free What does the mission of archive.org have to do with Google?

For that matter, what did AltaVista and Yahoo's index have to do with Google? And how does DDG relate now? It's a good discussion.

Google contribution is algorithmic ranking, in my opinion, which amounts to an ongoing war / immune response with SEO and huge stakes for visibility of accurate information.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#198

Post by nraynaud »

dekhn wrote: post #187

I once produced an open source product while working for Berkeley Lab, which is a DoE lab operated by UC. It does non-classified work. One day we got a visit from a couple employees of Lawrence Livermore Labs (classified research) and my manager glanced at their badges- he said something about "Q" and smiled while asking what they worked on. They said "multiphysics combustion codes" and my manager looked at me and sa…

I wouldn't mind too much bing in your shoes: you have not developed your library for that, it's not its main use, and you didn't even know about it.

I work in cloud related things (I do UI stuff for the cloud), I'm pretty sure 3-4 contracts from me, the code I work on could be used for weapons, but I'm clearly not developing a weapon nor something whose main goal is killing.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#199

Post by jstanley »

adamur wrote: post #192
debacle wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the OP said. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus#Explana...

It is what he said, you even linked the correct logic behind it.

He said dudebros don't want to change the world. He didn't say everyone who doesn't want to change the world is a dudebro.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#200

Post by jimmy1 »

themoonbus wrote: post #179
jimmy1 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dudebros was purposefully in quotes -- basically in reference to these days if you aren't a bleeding heart leftist and being actively engaged in being an ally, or other social justice cause (or at least give the facade that you are on social media) you are guilty by association, or at least placed in a less advantageous position versus your similar compatriot who is following the cultural winds. Gone are the times wh…

The previous generation you're referring to is one that actively discriminated against women and people of color in the work force... probably wasn't hard for them to keep politics out of the work place because there was more homogeneity. Discriminating against those who hold discriminatory views is different than discriminating against people based on their ethnicity or gender. And yes, I fully understand that what…

> The previous generation you're referring to is one that actively discriminated against women and people of color in the work force.

Some part of the previous generation did that. Some, obviously, did not, just as some part of the current generation continue to do that, and some do not. In some cases there is a real, legitimate argument that the discrimination has reversed -- there is a lot of discrimination and exclusion going on in this country all in the name of tolerance, inclusion and diversity.

In any case I appreciate you making my point for me.

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