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Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

nytimes.com

181–190 of 354 posts

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#181
The idealism of a bunch of engineers won't make the slightest difference, except may be appease their own sense of morality, as long as there are enough engineers willing to be tech-whores. In this regard, the supply exceeds the demand.

Technology is the proverbial knife which can cut a fruit to feed and can also cut a throat to terrorize. Take the current darling of tech, AI/ML. If you are working on this, at a megacorp especially, you should realize that sooner or later it will be used for nefarious activities. But should that stop you from contributing to the field? Would database engineers rue the fact that their products are used to store child porn?

My point is, unless something as explicit as the ones depicted in the article happens, its highly unlikely to know what the tech you are developing is going to be adapted for besides the one it was designed and built for. The google employee notes it themselves. Having ethical concerns is always advisable, but constantly wanting to know if the tech will be used by evil doers (which is not same as wanting to know more about a specific requirement that looks questionable) just makes one come across as a dick because no one except the powers that be would know that.

I hope engineers don't go from being sheep to full on hippies, but choose the rational middle path instead.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#182
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decisions we make in life, and our difficulty making them, defines us. I can’t help you define your morality here.

You're still begging the question and acting like there is a fixed morality.

Begging the question would be something like you disagreeing that any choice exists at all.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#183
post #133

Unpopular opinion: this is why the "dudebros" and their like keep getting hired. They are more than happy to do their work, accept their salary, and move on, and not have to turn everything into "changing the world"

"Unpopular opinion" is that people want to work for money?

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still begging the question and acting like there is a fixed morality.

Nobody is begging any question. The answer is that it is for YOU to decide. I'm sorry if that's not a simple, yes/no answer for you, but the world isn't like that.

I'm really at a loss to understand your reply.

My original question was "How would you like people to square [being accountable for the actions of their employer] with providing for their families?"

You've yet to say anything except implying that there is a single, black-and-white moral compass that everyone is capable of following in its entirety. There are no employers that have no moral shortcomings. Telling people that they're immoral for not destitute themselves is rather pointless and leads to a nowhere discussion because it started nowhere.

Moreover, it's a fairly pointless expectation that everyone is I don't know what country you live in, but I can ask with certainty the same with respect to citizenship: How can you be a citizen of a country that's perpetrated atrocities. In that case, it's even more clear that there is no option -- there is no country that hasn't committed atrocities.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#185

I find it surprising that educated people are "just now" doing this. What did people think corporations were doing to the world? Open up your eyes and look around and get your head out of the code and the bullshit slogans your companies have sold you. It's obvious something has gone wrong and is going on.

Eh well let's not throw corporations under the bus entirely. Corporate organization allows people to work together to take risks and tackle problems that are too big for individuals. This has given us the modern technology upon which most of us here earn our livings and given us huge advances in health and standard of living. Have corporations done bad things? Of course, and so they are regulated, and there are proce…

Are you serious? There's a better way to work together to take risks and tackle problems that are too big for individuals, and it's called "government": the original corporation that won't sell your grandmother to a meat company for a quarter.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still begging the question and acting like there is a fixed morality.

Begging the question would be something like you disagreeing that any choice exists at all.

You know, for some reason I had it in my head that "begging" meant avoiding. Off to reëducate myself!

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#187
I once produced an open source product while working for Berkeley Lab, which is a DoE lab operated by UC. It does non-classified work. One day we got a visit from a couple employees of Lawrence Livermore Labs (classified research) and my manager glanced at their badges- he said something about "Q" and smiled while asking what they worked on.

They said "multiphysics combustion codes" and my manager looked at me and said "they run nuclear weapons simulations" (they didn't confirm).

After chatting for a while I realized they were using my code to manage nuclear weapons simulations. That's a consequence of licenses like MIT and BSD and Apache: you don't control who uses your software.

I came to terms with this a long time ago but it's still odd to think that I can write software that my own government will use to ensure our destructive weapons work as expected.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#188
post #187

I once produced an open source product while working for Berkeley Lab, which is a DoE lab operated by UC. It does non-classified work. One day we got a visit from a couple employees of Lawrence Livermore Labs (classified research) and my manager glanced at their badges- he said something about "Q" and smiled while asking what they worked on. They said "multiphysics combustion codes" and my manager looked at me and sa…

That’s an amazing story. Do you mind sharing the name of the library?

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#189
post #177
post #133

Unpopular opinion: this is why the "dudebros" and their like keep getting hired. They are more than happy to do their work, accept their salary, and move on, and not have to turn everything into "changing the world"

Not wanting to change the world makes me a "dudebro"?

That's not what the OP said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_calculus#Explana...

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#190
post #188
post #187

I once produced an open source product while working for Berkeley Lab, which is a DoE lab operated by UC. It does non-classified work. One day we got a visit from a couple employees of Lawrence Livermore Labs (classified research) and my manager glanced at their badges- he said something about "Q" and smiled while asking what they worked on. They said "multiphysics combustion codes" and my manager looked at me and sa…

That’s an amazing story. Do you mind sharing the name of the library?

pyglobus: http://toolkit.globus.org/toolkit/docs/4.2/4.2.0/common/pygl...

it was a grid computing library that made it easy to FTP large files at high performance and do automated job management.

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