Google management gave too much freedom and independence to its techies and now they think they run the company.
Well, that’s what happens when you have an engineering-driven organization.
Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
111–120 of 354 posts
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#112Some tech workers. Not all, not most. This is more or less an editorial trying to get tech workers to think about implications, presumably to make them susceptible to politization so they can be more manipulated by news. China presents a quandary, no doubt. On the one hand we have self determination and sovereignty, on the other hand we have “western values” and so forth. Not long ago “internationalists” argued for t…
>This is more or less an editorial trying to get tech workers to think about implications, presumably to make them susceptible to politization so they can be more manipulated by news.
So you'd rather have an uninformed tech job force with no opinions, just walk into a private government every day which strips every right you have along with having absolutely no morals or ethics so you can live in a 34th story downtown penthouse with a mini australian shepherd and a Tesla?
You realize the tech workers literally do all of the tech work, which actually makes the company run and function, right? Why should they just be drones with no say?
This is exactly the problem. Do we just do this solely for money? Maybe the world would be a better place if workers had a say instead of shareholders and executives who are only in their positions to make extraordinary amounts of money in absolutely any way, morals & ethics often aside.
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious. I've read a few (mostly fictional) accounts of early companies, and the drive for profit seemed stronger (if anything) than it is now.
I've read just about every non-fiction account I can get my hands on about business in the ~1850-1930 era. The drive for profit during the industrial revolution, was radically stronger than it is today. The giants of industry back then openly lusted after success, it was culturally acceptable to behave that way (right up to the point where you were dominant, then the people turned against you). They made no apologies…
Do you have a short list of book recommendations?
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#114Some tech workers. Not all, not most. This is more or less an editorial trying to get tech workers to think about implications, presumably to make them susceptible to politization so they can be more manipulated by news. China presents a quandary, no doubt. On the one hand we have self determination and sovereignty, on the other hand we have “western values” and so forth. Not long ago “internationalists” argued for t…
>This is more or less an editorial trying to get tech workers to think about implications, presumably to make them susceptible to politization so they can be more manipulated by news. So you'd rather have an uninformed tech job force with no opinions, just walk into a private government every day which strips every right you have along with having absolutely no morals or ethics so you can live in a 34th story downtow…
I’m not for tech workers becoming drones. I'm for them being informed. I’m not for them to be moulded by mass media who see them as a tool to carry out their vision or idea if what’s right or wrong.
You see, if informed tech workers were to make contrarian decisions, let’s say with regard to domestic issues in the US and while informed they made a Libertarian decision, this decision would be derided never the less because it would deviate from mass media concensus.
Who decides and should decide about, for example produce?
Should the produce lady at the supermarket make the decision to stock conventional or organic, or consumer denand, of the owner/cooperative?
The produce lady gets paid to put whatever the buyer gets. The burger flipper doesn't decide ti buy frizen or from this or that ranch.
We get paid to do a job.
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#115At least to some extent, this is a "Hegelian pendulum." In the beginning there where black suited corporate drones. They coded black and white "calculation solutions" for the enterprising enterprise. Then came colour. Gates wanted cheap computers on every desk. Jobs wanted colour computers for every artist. Mission. Meaning. This worked better, especially if you needed employees to invent things. Can't invent the iPh…
> Google (and "SV") have spent 2 decades telling everyone about their open and selfless ideologies. People bought it. They went to work for Google instead of a bank... Let's inject a little honesty into this discussion. People didn't flock to google et al in droves because of google's selfless ideology. That was coincidental. People flocked to google because they wanted to get rich. Especially in the early days when…
I don't know about you. But if I can get riches at Google, I can get riches at Facebook, Apple or Microsoft too. The reason I would have chosen Google, and the reason I entrusted Google with all my personal information in the first place, was knowing they had that slogan.
I just couldn't imagine they'd ever erase it... Now who is left? I guess I'm waiting for the Internet Archive to turn evil...
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#116> According to Dr. Poulson, Mr. Dean said that Google complied with surveillance requests from the federal government and asked rhetorically if the company should leave the United States market in protest.
How clueless can you be? People can and will die if you cooperate and share private information on your users with the Chinese government.
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For the techies going to work for google, it was never about not being evil. It was about getting rich. Most "techies going to work for google" or any other tech firm, are not going to get rich, in the Bill Gates or Larry Ellison sense. Sure, techies (currently) have a good shot at an above average lifestyle, but that's it. Working as third engineer from the left is not going to provide generational wealth for thei…
> Most "techies going to work for google" or any other tech firm, are not going to get rich, in the Bill Gates or Larry Ellison sense. I can't speak for the OP, but there is absolutely a sense of getting rich working early at a tech company. The market for startup options is a direct indication of this. Google and Facebook both made, what..1000 millionaires each when they IPO'd? Point is, yes if you get in early to a…
The FB and Google scenarios were vanishing outliers. A whole lot of if statements had to evaluate to true to produce those outcomes, and at the end of the day, a FB IPO millionaire is pretty well off but his kids will still have to work for a living.
The remaining 99% of early tech employees for other companies will end up with equity worth a house down payment if they are lucky, worth a few months of rent in the usual case, and often worth nothing.
EDIT: As for the tech downturn, just wait and see. I assume you have not been through a significant tech bear market from your comment, but if you have, you should know better. Things dry up completely, for nearly everyone. If you miraculously keep your job, you are still not in any powerful bargaining position.
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#118This isn’t a novel concept. Didn’t anyone see Real Genius?
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#119Each time a topic like this get posted to HN, I feel like a broken record repeating the same thing over and over.
There are many very talented software developers that have very different political and ethical opinions than those described here. They work for military and intelligence of their respective countries, enjoy it, and believe that they're doing it for greater good. You can debate whether they're right or not, but please, don't forget that they exist - and that there are a LOT of them.
Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is more or less an editorial trying to get tech workers to think about implications, presumably to make them susceptible to politization so they can be more manipulated by news. So you'd rather have an uninformed tech job force with no opinions, just walk into a private government every day which strips every right you have along with having absolutely no morals or ethics so you can live in a 34th story downtow…
I’m not for tech workers becoming drones. I'm for them being informed. I’m not for them to be moulded by mass media who see them as a tool to carry out their vision or idea if what’s right or wrong. You see, if informed tech workers were to make contrarian decisions, let’s say with regard to domestic issues in the US and while informed they made a Libertarian decision, this decision would be derided never the less be…
I don't see any "mass media" effecting tech workers. A lot of us are pretty smart & can critically think. I see employee's not aligning morally with drone & censorship projects which is absolutely 100% not a bad thing.
I am fortunate to work for a company that I know of does nothing immoral or unethical, but refuse to work for Amazon, Google, or Facebook regardless of their recruiting efforts because I know I don't align with them morally or ethically.