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Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

nytimes.com

71–80 of 354 posts

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#71
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has been the answer for last era. I think that’s why tech workers are starting to ask what we’re building it for. Because we’re here at this point because building “for money” is no longer good enough. Because what’s the point of having money when we’re cancer ridden and polluting our planet, and despite living in a rich planet people are starving, and the very resources that feed us are being destroyed. What’s…

> despite living in a rich planet people are starving A overused rhetoric that does not hold much ground when you realize that poverty is decreasing fast everywhere around, and faster than we expected it to. https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/World-...

The way we measure a "decreasing poverty" is extremely laden politically (like most things that are supposedly "neutrally evaluated" are supposed to be, just because they're represented as spreadsheets of numbers).

We consider that a villager living from subsistence farming and therefore having almost no use for money to be part of the very poor, less than 1$/day crowd.

Take this same peasant and send it working for some multinational company harvesting cocoa or sugar cane, under horrible, exploitative conditions for 2$ a day, and bam! poverty has been halved!

Ditto if you send him and his family in some shanty town collecting plastic on a rubbish pile, feeding on refuse : he's now making 3$ a day, poverty decreased again!

What is called "lifting out of poverty" is actually "making them a cog of a worldwide, money-based economy". That's a mixed blessing, to say the least.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#72
We do? Maybe a tiny fringe does. Most tech workers want to know the same thing nytimes employees do. The salary and benefits. That's it. That's what workers care about at the end of the day.

Does the nytimes tech team ask "Why are we spamming HN everyday for"? I doubt it. They just do what they are paid to do.

The same thing for all tech workers and all workers in general. The construction worker building a luxury tower isn't asking "why are we building this for". He just wants to get paid and paid well.

"Do no evil" is no more real in the tech world as "fair and balanced" or "all the news fit to print" is real in the news world. It's just empty slogans for PR.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#73
post #40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the quote goes recognition and praise trumps sex and money. Guys join the army for what? Loose their lives for what?

They join the army to protect their nation and the privileges we have. So your family can have dinner at night without worrying about people from a neighboring land busting in and stealing your property , kidnapping murdeing raping family etc They are people who are signing up for a job whose work benefits are medium probability of making their spouses widows and single parents overnight

Ceremony and tradition, parades and costume, medals and ribbons exist for what reason?

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, it should not negatively impact lives. For example, I can't see myself saying "I will take this job for the money, and the gun I help engineered is used to kill humans during combat".

I don't work in the field and don't know exactly how I'd personally feel about it, but I can see a very strong argument that even one of the most heinous weapons every deployed on Earth likely saved a net million-plus lives. If that is the case, is it moral to refuse to work on the Manhattan Project if asked? (I also agree that working on the next generation of the atomic bomb or the next revision of the M16/AK47 doe…

You are totally right, I am oversimplifying it.

Do you know of any text, interviews or discussions with any of the scientists on the Manhattan project on the morality of their work?

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#75
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. If you do not have have what the average person in your society has, you'll struggle to participate in your society (in an absolute sense) and you'll be treated as an inferior, which does all kinds of harm (in an absolute sense). If I live aboard a ship, I am not in poverty because I do not own a car, because in my society, you do not need a car. But if I live in a city with no public transport where you need…

You seem here to be asserting that "not feeling/being inferior to the people around you" is some kind of intrinsic human right?

Technically there are no intrinsic human rights and it's up to us as a society to define them.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#76

bold statement alert if you don't know what your company is doing, and your intricate part in that dance, you are not really providing value to the company, or more importantly to yourself. /bold statement How can you make decisions if you don't understand the business impact? How do you know what if that optimization is worth the cost of implementation? If you don't know the impact of a product release on your custo…

Not necessarily true in big companies. A devops middle manager doesn't need to know whether the company is building widgets or dohickies; their job is to keep the software running securely. CTO/VP Eng should certainly know more about business priorities.

At smaller companies it is more important. Also can improve morale.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#77
post #40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the quote goes recognition and praise trumps sex and money. Guys join the army for what? Loose their lives for what?

They join the army to protect their nation and the privileges we have. So your family can have dinner at night without worrying about people from a neighboring land busting in and stealing your property , kidnapping murdeing raping family etc They are people who are signing up for a job whose work benefits are medium probability of making their spouses widows and single parents overnight

They also join because of solid signing bonuses, good training, GI Bill, and a good resume item. Let’s not kid ourselves about the economic make-up of our enlisted military.

I am not saying that they did not sign up for the other reasons as well, and by saying this I don’t think I am undermining their commitment to serve or their intent, but in a volunteer force it is also about money, and we’re going to have to pay a lot more to meet recruitment targets.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#78
I find it surprising that educated people are "just now" doing this. What did people think corporations were doing to the world? Open up your eyes and look around and get your head out of the code and the bullshit slogans your companies have sold you. It's obvious something has gone wrong and is going on.

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#79

For money, my dear, for money. Is there any other reason for a company to exist? The stuff like "do no evil" or "we are green" is just a smoke screen. At the end they will do everything for money.

Personally, it should not negatively impact lives. For example, I can't see myself saying "I will take this job for the money, and the gun I help engineered is used to kill humans during combat".

Agree you should not work for something that is not align with your moral and personal believe, as for me I can totally see myself saying "I will take this job for the money, and the gun I help engineered is used to kill humans during combat".

Re: Tech Workers Now Want to Know: What Are We Building This For?

#80

I find it surprising that educated people are "just now" doing this. What did people think corporations were doing to the world? Open up your eyes and look around and get your head out of the code and the bullshit slogans your companies have sold you. It's obvious something has gone wrong and is going on.

Engineering abilities does not imply political awareness. Making things work is surprisingly hard and (imho) a soul crushing process. You need a specific kind of people's profile for that. From my experience, the presence of a political vision alongside the engineering skills is much lower than expected. When both are present, the political vision does not come from a kind of enlightenment in the engineer's inner soul. But from a feedback loop coming from accurate sources of informations.
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