Live data from Hacker News

The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

grantland.com

61–70 of 74 posts

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#61
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it feels bad Even when you win it’s not great because chances are you did something shady and your friends are mad at you. This might explain why I haven’t played/ thought about this game in 30 years. I like board games (competetive and co-op) but have no desire to play this again.

This is the same problem I have playing Risk. I don't enjoy deceiving my friends and having them deceive me. It's hard for me to understand what kind of person enjoys basically trying to manipulate other people for sport.

[deleted]

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#62

I absolutely loved this game in high school. It’s very special, in that it’s primary mechanic is real world relationships placed into a tactical context. The downside is that it pulls real world relationships into a simulated zero-sum environment where the game ends but the relationships persist. I’ve never played any game quite like it. Unfortunately, I can’t think of a situation in which I would ever play it again,…

I've been brutally betrayed twice in Diplomacy. I'm still good friends with those people. It's only a game. If you can't separate player's behavior in the context of a game with who they are outside of it, then maybe board games is not the hobby for you, or at least not social/negotiation board games, which are very common in recent years.

Games are supposed to be fun. A lot of people don't find lying, manipulating, and betraying fun, in any context. That's not a psychological failing, and it certainly doesn't mean you should avoid board games. There's plenty of socially competitive board games, but damn few of them are half as vicious as Diplomacy.

If you and your friends can enjoy Diplomacy, that's great! But I do get tired of all the people insinuating that there's something wrong with me I don't like it.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny chess is the game with the higher status, but I don't think that's what the term alpha was trying to get at. Alpha here is used in a social context, ie the leader of a pack. Some traits of an alpha, as opposed to a beta, include being aggressive, intimidating, capable of convincing others to join your agenda, and willing to lie for your benefit. It's hard to display alpha traits in a one on one game like…

I’m with you up until you associate alpha with being intimidating and willing to lie. Alpha implies leadership 100%. It is possible to be a strong and convincing leader without these negative traits. In practice, most leaders are in fact more ruthless as you portray. But look at the #metoo movement for one data point of how the balance of power is shifting. All of that notwithstanding, it is very possible and in fact…

Apologies if I implied intimidation and lying are good traits. However, I do maintain that they are alpha traits. Lying, maybe not sure much, but intimidating, definitely. Being alpha isn't necessarily a good thing. Like all labels, and especially for a label as complicated as "alpha", there are good and bad parts to it.

Honestly I dislike using the term alpha, because it's so inflammatory. Its hard to talk about what alpha means without bringing up beta, and the moment you use those two words then it sounds like redpill-speak. However, there are certain kinds of people who are confrontational and very much extroverted, the kinds who don't back away when challenged. I see alpha as a way to describe these traits as they are, with no moral conclusions attached.

For sure Chess players can display alpha traits, but it's hard to see how Chess players are MORE alpha than Diplomacy players. An entire game of Chess can finish without a single word exchanged, and it's rare and unprofessional for violence to show up in Chess, though it does show up time to time. In diplomacy, violence, albeit only verbal, is the norm. A nonconfrontational person will never survive in diplomacy, but they can do well in Chess.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#64

I college, I'd do 18 player games on a world map. Definitely changed your impression of people, particularly when you'd only vaguely know them otherwise - but it also got you into long-term close contact (these games were a turn a week, and would last for ~18 months before a winner was obvious).

Which variant map did you play? I have seen a few world maps but hard to see the potential balance issues without playing a few rounds…

We did two games. One used http://www.variantbank.org/results/rules/i/imperial2.htm

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#65
We used to play this at work with weekly turns. There was a lot of scheming throughout the week leading up to each turn day. I even learned the OS/2 display list (retained graphics api, forget the name) to make an interactive Diplomacy game reference map that lived on the LAN. Good times. Don't recall any friendships being ended.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#66
The experiences of individuals playing this remind me of when we got first an 8 man and then a 16 or 24 man game or something and it was quite an experience. The two weeks we played this at work were probably hundreds of thousands of dollars in productivity lost.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been brutally betrayed twice in Diplomacy. I'm still good friends with those people. It's only a game. If you can't separate player's behavior in the context of a game with who they are outside of it, then maybe board games is not the hobby for you, or at least not social/negotiation board games, which are very common in recent years.

Games are supposed to be fun. A lot of people don't find lying, manipulating, and betraying fun, in any context. That's not a psychological failing, and it certainly doesn't mean you should avoid board games. There's plenty of socially competitive board games, but damn few of them are half as vicious as Diplomacy. If you and your friends can enjoy Diplomacy, that's great! But I do get tired of all the people insinuat…

Personally I'm pretty burnt out on all those social games myself. I'd rather just play a 2 player abstract nowadays, like the GIPF series. Please don't take what I said in my original post as a scathing indictment or that there's something wrong with you. I get along with most people and I'm sure I'd have no issues playing with you at a game night.

There are certain personality types that tend to lead to negative experiences in gaming, though, and being a poor sport is one of those, and I do try to avoid gaming with those people when I can.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m with you up until you associate alpha with being intimidating and willing to lie. Alpha implies leadership 100%. It is possible to be a strong and convincing leader without these negative traits. In practice, most leaders are in fact more ruthless as you portray. But look at the #metoo movement for one data point of how the balance of power is shifting. All of that notwithstanding, it is very possible and in fact…

Apologies if I implied intimidation and lying are good traits. However, I do maintain that they are alpha traits. Lying, maybe not sure much, but intimidating, definitely. Being alpha isn't necessarily a good thing. Like all labels, and especially for a label as complicated as "alpha", there are good and bad parts to it. Honestly I dislike using the term alpha, because it's so inflammatory. Its hard to talk about wha…

So I think the term "alpha" is leading to a lot of confusion here. It could mean "person in charge who maintains control through deception and fear, much like a psychopath", or it could mean "leader". True leadership involves dealing with conflicts and confrontations, but doing it with integrity and respect at all times. That's how good leaders inspire others to follow them. Only charlatans need to rely on brute force methods like intimidation.

For that reason, I encourage you to stop conflating "alpha" with antisocial character traits. Words matter. The very idea that this is acceptable behavior for leaders, that sometimes violence is the answer, perpetuates the social norms that allow bullies to stay in power.

Also, your conception of diplomacy needs work. Again, anybody who is actually any good at diplomacy understands how it is possible to convey a firm position with minimal violence. Diplomacy is more of a dance. You don't want to be the kind of lead dancer who's violently swinging your partner around the room.

If you really believe that confrontation can't be resolved without violence, I recommend a meditation practice known as "metta" [compassion]. Reading the Art of War may also provide inspiration and guidance on this front.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#69

The experiences of individuals playing this remind me of when we got first an 8 man and then a 16 or 24 man game or something and it was quite an experience. The two weeks we played this at work were probably hundreds of thousands of dollars in productivity lost.

I didn't even mention the game it was similar to. Incredible mistake.

The games were of Neptune's Pride.

Re: The Board Game of the Alpha Nerds (2014)

#70
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it feels bad Even when you win it’s not great because chances are you did something shady and your friends are mad at you. This might explain why I haven’t played/ thought about this game in 30 years. I like board games (competetive and co-op) but have no desire to play this again.

This is the same problem I have playing Risk. I don't enjoy deceiving my friends and having them deceive me. It's hard for me to understand what kind of person enjoys basically trying to manipulate other people for sport.

> It's hard for me to understand what kind of person enjoys basically trying to manipulate other people for sport.

Your question contains the answer: it’s _for sport_. Sport and games are a place we can play out desires we’d never want to in real life. Tons of gamers like to pretend they’re shooting people. Strategy gamers orchestrate war and genocide. In sport, boxers pummel each other to unconsciousness, and many boxers are lovely people.

Post reply on HN