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Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

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Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#61
Congratulations on clawing your way back. After reading about the "Zunger Shock Sieve" [0], I've started building up my emergency funds. In the US, health issues are unfortunately a common path to financial distress.

[0] https://shift.newco.co/2017/12/04/your-financial-shock-wealt...

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#63
I'm not presently going through exactly what you went through - but I can relate on many levels.

I've been on and off anti-depressants since I was sixteen, and I'm 33 now. My self-confidence has been basically destroyed, and I've kind of been just a shell of a human being ever since middle school. I've never figured myself out, and I've never felt like I've had time to, or the space and energy.

I've been in and out of therapy, I've been to rehab, and I've seen lots of professionals - psychiatrists and therapists.

My current psychiatrist is helping me a lot - but it also seems like it's two steps forward, and three backwards. During the spring, I gained a lot of confidence, and felt like I was back on track, and it only took one thing going haywire in my plans, for everything to once again fall off the rails.

Like you - I finally broke down to my parents (who have been amazingly supportive over the years) - and this isn't the first time I've broken down in front of them - but hopefully it's the last.

I've decided that the career path I've sought for myself, which is the line of work they both worked in, isn't for me.

My main goal right now, which I'm going to need their help with (because at this point accomplishing basic tasks like opening my email / checking my physical mail - are terrifying to me), is to sell the house I purchased several years ago. This thing has been a boat anchor, and has helped keep me stuck by requiring a certain level of monthly income.

After that, I hope to quit my job and set out across the country to do some soul searching. Hopefully via the house sale and savings I've accrued, I can keep myself afloat for a while, while I pursue new opportunities.

My goal is to enter a new industry, that is arguably more rigorous than the one I'm leaving, but I feel like my current position has contributed quite a bit to my deterioration in mental health, and that it's not what I love - or even want - to do.

Ultimately, I keep myself going by remembering the alternative is not an option. I try to think that things will get better, but it's difficult at times. The one thing I can always rely on fortunately (and this isn't true for many), is family and my close friends. Networking is very important, and so is remembering that everyone, including you and me, deserves to be happy.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#64
post #16

When I read stuff like this I'm so glad to live in a country (France) that doesn't let people without any money when they're fired or have serious medical issues. Nation-wide solidarity costs little to each person but gives a lot to those who need it. So sad that our public unemployment and health systems are getting destroyed piece by piece by successive governments (the current one is particularly agressive).

> Nation-wide solidarity costs little to each person but gives a lot to those who need it. The money I save from French taxes (I left this year) I can easily afford all manner of insurance plus I get paid a heck of a lot more to save quite a bit of money. French employment is over 10% and the economy is stagnant. Could it be if you incentivize unemployment you get more of it? It sure seems like that in France. Chroni…

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Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#65
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, this advices is potentially too shallow to be useful, as (private/individual) DI is tricky. For it to be useful long-term, you'll need to find a policy with both guaranteed renewal and guaranteed coverage increase as your income rises, before any chronic conditions appear (or are diagnosed) or things like car accidents occur and become pre-existing conditions. There are other details that make shopping…

>For it to be useful long-term, you'll need to find a policy with both guaranteed renewal and guaranteed coverage increase as your income rises, before any chronic conditions appear (or are diagnosed) or things like car accidents occur and become pre-existing conditions. That's only true if you want to increase your spending as your income increases. If you start out with an upper-middle-class paycheck and lifestyle…

> if you want to increase your spending as your income increases

For many people, I think you have this backwards. That is, they seek an increased income in order to support increased spending, such as for raising children.

Regardless, the kind of savings discipline you propose seems like it would apply to a minority of those near the start of their careers.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#66
post #58
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, this advices is potentially too shallow to be useful, as (private/individual) DI is tricky. For it to be useful long-term, you'll need to find a policy with both guaranteed renewal and guaranteed coverage increase as your income rises, before any chronic conditions appear (or are diagnosed) or things like car accidents occur and become pre-existing conditions. There are other details that make shopping…

The market seems to be geared toward self-employed professionals, such as dentists, rather than the typical tech worker. AFAIK private disability insurance folks love "typical" tech workers because they're less likely to malinger than most self-employed professionals, to a degree which makes getting private long-term disability insurance a bit of a challenge if one e.g. runs a software consultancy or SaaS business. (…

> AFAIK private disability insurance folks love "typical" tech workers

It's been more than a few years since I've looked, but any love didn't, then, translate to a diversity of products, transparency in pricing (e.g. ease of obtaining quotes), and/or significantly lower premiums (or discounts for periods of double coverage).

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've excluded employers national insurance contributions here, which is 13.8% of total pay. That makes the true "main" marginal rate c.44% (20% tax + 12% employee national insurance + 13.8% employers NI / 113.8%). Most higher earners in e.g. tech or professions will be in the 40% band at least, where the true marginal rate is c.49% (40%+2%+13.8% / 113.8%). The "top" marginal rate is c.53% (45% tax+2% employee NI+13…

Adding the employers contribution to calculate marginal rates for employees is not how its calculated. Do you think any employer in the uk would magically give you the 13.8 if employers ni went away. And most STEM jobs including tech don't get into the higher band at 46,350 I think you ignored the tax free band.

Not including employers contribution when comparing countries is just non-sense to me: the only number that matters is the total cost per added employee for a business, and on the other side for the employee the after-tax money that remains after everything is deducted. And then you can put the services you get for the money (i.e. yes taxes are higher in France for instance, but the state provides also much more).

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is an outlier! After taxes, insurance and maxing out my 401k (i.e. all the stuff that comes out of my paycheck) I take home 56% on the East coast (in a high tax state no less). I also pay less sales tax and transportation costs than I would in CA and I can afford a house with less than six figures (gross) household income.

You make paying 45% for France's system sound like a deal for a lifetime.

45% is only the (higher bracket) "federal taxes" (France isn't a federal country) that don't include all the welfare contributions which are taken from your salary (22% IIRC) and also the higher employer contributions.

Edit, FYI: - 14% from 9 964 € to 27 519 € - 30% from 27 519 € to 73 779 € - 41% from 73 779 € to 156 244 € - 45% beyond 156 244 €

And the table here for the social contribution that are taken out of your pay before the taxes above are applied: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotisations_sociales_en_France...

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#69
post #39
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is right, you have wrong. You have your gross salary (brut) on which you and your employer pay taxes (routhly 30%). And then on top of that you pay the tax you describe with a progressive tax rate up to 45%. So on average, 45% seems good to me.

If you speak in gross rather than in net, then it is even a lot more than what you're saying. But then it is not income tax , which is the percentage of what was discussed. If you want to account for everything that is removed from your salary between gross cost for the employer and your net after taxes, it will surely be between 50% and 60% in average. But then we can talk about the benefit of all this. I don't know…

> But then it is not income tax, which is the percentage of what was discussed.

On the contrary, this matches what is "Income tax" in the US.

> If you want to account for everything that is removed from your salary between gross cost for the employer and your net after taxes, it will surely be between 50% and 60% in average. But then we can talk about the benefit of all this.

But that is the discussion, I don't think anyone considered that there are higher taxes in France without any benefit for it.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#70
post #16

When I read stuff like this I'm so glad to live in a country (France) that doesn't let people without any money when they're fired or have serious medical issues. Nation-wide solidarity costs little to each person but gives a lot to those who need it. So sad that our public unemployment and health systems are getting destroyed piece by piece by successive governments (the current one is particularly agressive).

Do those systems really work? Civil servants always find a way to deny support because you miss X or Z (I am talking mostly about the UK). I learned that it is best to take care yourself of yourself and don't depend on the state. I view the extra tax for the stuff I can't use as a theft.
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