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Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

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Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#51

Post by GuB-42 »

p4bl0 wrote: post #30
fromthestart wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nation-wide solidarity costs little to each person Federal income tax in France is greater than 45%[1]. There's nothing cheap about that. I much prefer the freedom of saving my own money, especially when working in something as lucrative as tech. 1. https://tradingeconomics.com/france/personal-income-tax-rate

This is simply wrong. Income tax percentage depends on how much money you make, and it goes from 0% to 45%. You pay 0% up to 9807€ of income. Anything above that and under 27086€ you pay 14% on it. Then between that and 72617€ you pay 30% on it. And then between that and 153783€ you pay 41% on it. Finally, you pay 45% only if you make more than 153783€ per year and again, only on euros that you earn above this thresh…

Just to make things clear, income tax is indeed progressive, and 45% is the maximum income tax and very few get to that level.

However, it is far from the whole story: when you get paid, the employer pays taxes, then the employees pays taxes, and only then, you have your income, which is taxed again.

In the end, you get around half of what your employer pays. It means the "more than 45%" is spot on. It works a bit differently for those who are self employed but the numbers are similar.

It is different for civil servants, and as an associate professor, you are probably one. They are taxed much less, which makes sense since they are paid with tax money.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#52

Post by vonvonschilling »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #43
arcticbull wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's actually a great deal. The top marginal tax rate in the state of California this year is roughly 65% (and that's excluding employer contributions). 13.3% of all income (State) + 39.6% of all income (Federal) + 5.3% of all income (Federal double tax on State Tax - thanks, Donny) + 6.2% of all income (Social Security - Individual) ===== 64.4% Then of course your employer pays another 6.2% of gross earnings…

California is an outlier! After taxes, insurance and maxing out my 401k (i.e. all the stuff that comes out of my paycheck) I take home 56% on the East coast (in a high tax state no less). I also pay less sales tax and transportation costs than I would in CA and I can afford a house with less than six figures (gross) household income.

You make paying 45% for France's system sound like a deal for a lifetime.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#53

Post by tomatocracy »

cbanek wrote: post #17

I'm so happy to hear that things are looking up for you. I remember when you posted the first time, and I was really hoping things would work out. As someone prone to depression throughout their entire life, I have to agree that a bad job situation can make a depressive-leaning person's life really bad. I've been going through similar things for the last few months. I think this is also pushing me to get my own thera…

I'd go further than that. A bad job situation can make anyone's life really bad. If you spend more than 50% of your waking hours somewhere, how could it not?

Although my situation was not anything like as bad, I went through a similar situation two years ago. The two things I wish in retrospect I'd done differently are (1) get therapy sooner and (2) get out sooner. The feeling I had the day I quit that employer is one of the best feelings I've ever had, even though it was a place I thought I loved. I'm still doing the same job at a different employer, but the difference is night and day.

At least in my past situation, a huge part of the issue was in recognising that I was in that situation in the first place. These types of workplace issues have a nasty habit of creeping up slowly, day by day, week by week, so that you don't notice them. I kept thinking "it's just this current situation around [x] thing", when really it was the whole environment.

Add even a small amount of home/personal life stress on top of that (dealing with very young or teenage kids, moving house, illness, money worries, relationship problems, ...) and it can be the straw that broke the camel's back.

I really wish good therapy (with a therapist of your choice) was something which health insurance/the NHS paid for (at least in the UK, it doesn't). I hate to think of how many people in these types of situations are put off by the cost.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#55

Post by rayiner »

arcticbull wrote: post #23
fromthestart wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nation-wide solidarity costs little to each person Federal income tax in France is greater than 45%[1]. There's nothing cheap about that. I much prefer the freedom of saving my own money, especially when working in something as lucrative as tech. 1. https://tradingeconomics.com/france/personal-income-tax-rate

Wow, that's actually a great deal. The top marginal tax rate in the state of California this year is roughly 65% (and that's excluding employer contributions). 13.3% of all income (State) + 39.6% of all income (Federal) + 5.3% of all income (Federal double tax on State Tax - thanks, Donny) + 6.2% of all income (Social Security - Individual) ===== 64.4% Then of course your employer pays another 6.2% of gross earnings…

You're double counting the "Federal double tax." Also, the marginal Social Security tax is $0, since it phases out long before you hit those marginal rates.

That being said, the reason France can offer robust services while California cannot, even though tech worker taxes are similar between the two countries, is because France taxes everyone that way. In France, the 41% tax bracket (just a little lower than the top bracket of 45%) kicks in at 71,000 Euros (about $80,000). The U.S. federal rate in that bracket is 25%. Then there is the 20% VAT paid by even the lowest income people.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#56

Post by Sharlin »

antidesitter wrote: post #29
simonsaidit wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes if all you think about is yourself then that works well.

> Yes if all you think about is yourself How does saving your own money preclude you from thinking about others?

Don't be obtuse. The OP had a very particularly selfish viewpoint: they prefer saving their own money because they happen to be in a situation that makes it (particularly) feasible. No mention about society as a whole.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#57

Post by rayiner »

hef19898 wrote: post #41
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France also has a 20% VAT.

Like a lot of European countries. For Germany the (very) rough rule of thumb is net salary equals 50% of gross salary (please refer to your German tax adiver or accountant for more details). That is after taxes, social security, health insurance and unemployment insurance.

In the U.S. that's true for high income professionals in high-cost states. For more typical salaries, even good ones in big cities, it's more like take home is 75% of gross.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#58

Post by patio11 »

mmt wrote: post #9
maxerickson wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disability insurance too.

Unfortunately, this advices is potentially too shallow to be useful, as (private/individual) DI is tricky. For it to be useful long-term, you'll need to find a policy with both guaranteed renewal and guaranteed coverage increase as your income rises, before any chronic conditions appear (or are diagnosed) or things like car accidents occur and become pre-existing conditions. There are other details that make shopping…

The market seems to be geared toward self-employed professionals, such as dentists, rather than the typical tech worker.

AFAIK private disability insurance folks love "typical" tech workers because they're less likely to malinger than most self-employed professionals, to a degree which makes getting private long-term disability insurance a bit of a challenge if one e.g. runs a software consultancy or SaaS business.

(FYI for folks who might find themselves in that situation at some point: I got Petersen International Underwriters https://www.piu.org/ to do a policy for me, despite having at the time a "quite complicated" story on the financial front [0]. They don't sell insurance directly to consumers so one has to use a broker; insubuy.com was adequate for the very modest needs of moving information from my emails into their inbox.)

[0] A major risk in underwriting folks for disability insurance is moral hazard; if malingering on insurance is preferable to going to work, some people might be tempted to do so, and since long-term insurance policies might last until current facts about someone's business/career are no longer true, you have to make a best guess on "OK, does it look like their $200k+ income will continue, or will they eventually face the choice 'Shut down business and get a job at Target or leave the workforce and bill us for $10k a month.'"

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#59

Post by walshemj »

tomatocracy wrote: post #46
walshemj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the UK with the NHS that figure would be 32% for most single people and less for those with kids.

You've excluded employers national insurance contributions here, which is 13.8% of total pay. That makes the true "main" marginal rate c.44% (20% tax + 12% employee national insurance + 13.8% employers NI / 113.8%). Most higher earners in e.g. tech or professions will be in the 40% band at least, where the true marginal rate is c.49% (40%+2%+13.8% / 113.8%). The "top" marginal rate is c.53% (45% tax+2% employee NI+13…

Adding the employers contribution to calculate marginal rates for employees is not how its calculated.

Do you think any employer in the uk would magically give you the 13.8 if employers ni went away.

And most STEM jobs including tech don't get into the higher band at 46,350 I think you ignored the tax free band.

Re: Update to Ask HN: What to do if I’m about to lose my job to mental health issues

#60

Post by isostatic »

tomatocracy wrote: post #46
walshemj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the UK with the NHS that figure would be 32% for most single people and less for those with kids.

You've excluded employers national insurance contributions here, which is 13.8% of total pay. That makes the true "main" marginal rate c.44% (20% tax + 12% employee national insurance + 13.8% employers NI / 113.8%). Most higher earners in e.g. tech or professions will be in the 40% band at least, where the true marginal rate is c.49% (40%+2%+13.8% / 113.8%). The "top" marginal rate is c.53% (45% tax+2% employee NI+13…

Withdrawal of child benefit puts a 60% or more marginal rate from £50k to £60k (plus the 12% employer ni)
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