Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants • Hacker News Board

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#21

Post by pasabagi » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 11:59 AM UTC

asah wrote: post #6

pasabagi wrote: post #2

YMMV, but for me, anti-depressants allow me to have emootions. When I'm off them, emotions are way too intense, so I clamp them all down until they're barely there. After two years of anti-depressants, I'm finally able to listen to music I really like, read books I find emotionally affective.

interesting! what are you on and what dose did you settle on?

I'm on setraline - a pretty light dose, these days (can't remember it off the top of my head). I've been prescribed a bunch of stuff over the years, and have developed the impression that the prescription process is more art than science. Doctors tend to overprescribe, so you get sledge-hammer style effects. A good psychiatrist will usually prescribe two or more anti-depressants in light doses, so you don't really get side-effects or weird stuff.

Obviously, starting and stopping drugs is always rough, but I have tried living without them, and I see no benefits. You do generally get side-effects to some degree (I have very dry skin at the moment) - but if you have even the most trivial depression, you'll probably find you prefer them to even a light episode. Also, they aren't a silver bullet. I still have depressive days, from time to time - but the difference is, it's not my life anymore. I can hold down jobs, have relationships, etc.

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#22

Post by psergeant » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:02 PM UTC

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #15

psergeant wrote: post #4

The only thing that seems to be universally true about mental health is that we’re all different, and someone else’s experiences rarely apply perfectly to your own. I put off getting on the meds for at least 15 years longer than I should have done because of stories like this. They have been life changing lot positive for me with almost no downsides. In addition, I’ve read more than one story like this where the pers…

Keep in mind that for many people taking drugs is: a) not a choice they personally made (coercion by the school system or authorities or parents). b) they were lied to about the effects and side effects. c) they were prescribed 'off-label' which means essentially with no proven efficacy. When you say "Experiment, find what works for you" keep in mind how offensive that is to people who feel they were lied/coerced int…

> When you say "Experiment, find what works for you" keep in mind how offensive that is to people who feel they were lied/coerced into a taking drugs that in some cases ruined their lives.

Right, like suggesting people find employment is offensive to people who have experienced slavery.

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#23

Post by ssorina » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:08 PM UTC

psergeant wrote: post #4

The only thing that seems to be universally true about mental health is that we’re all different, and someone else’s experiences rarely apply perfectly to your own. I put off getting on the meds for at least 15 years longer than I should have done because of stories like this. They have been life changing lot positive for me with almost no downsides. In addition, I’ve read more than one story like this where the pers…

I am also a bit skeptical when strong anti-Pharma opinions are expressed, based on personal experience only. Meta-analyses have shown that for severe depression, antidepressants are a first line of attack, only seconded or aided by CBT, but not interchangeable in terms of efficacy. It's kind of stupid to counterargue with yet another personal story, but for me not being able to take SSRIs has proven to be a real problem. I developed a somewhat rare side-effect with both SSRIs and SNRIs, I basically covered up in unexplanable bruises and given the increased risk of internal bleeding, am cut off from this medicine class completely. The only time in my life where I was not crippled by anxiety was on these meds. I continually try relaxation, CBT, DBT and whatnot, but unfortunately I am one of those who does not respond as well to therapy as I do to medication. To be really honest, I am on the other side of the fence: I hope big pharma comes up with something else than benzos and SSRIs for anxiety, so that I can be relieved from the task of living my life spiting anxiety 70% of the day.

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#24

Post by pasabagi » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:08 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #9

pasabagi wrote: post #2

YMMV, but for me, anti-depressants allow me to have emootions. When I'm off them, emotions are way too intense, so I clamp them all down until they're barely there. After two years of anti-depressants, I'm finally able to listen to music I really like, read books I find emotionally affective.

For me, Prozac (SSRI) cuts off those sharp edges. But when I started using it I could barely walk with it (e.g. taking stairs gave me intense muscle fatigue, nausea, and I was very tired in general), so strong it was (eventually this initial effect faded away). I have an ASD diagnosis.

When I started on venlafaxin, I used to fall out of chairs. I think part of what gives anti-depressants such a bad rap is they have a god-awful beginning and end.

I still go around evangelising them, because I just can't bear to imagine all the people who get put off by the (horrible) start and horror stories, and live in purgatory for years with no light at the end of the tunnel. Because, as far as I can see, side-effects usually just mean the dosage is wrong, or the drug-combo is wrong.

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#25

Post by tren » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:11 PM UTC

mysticmode wrote: post #8

psergeant wrote: post #4

The only thing that seems to be universally true about mental health is that we’re all different, and someone else’s experiences rarely apply perfectly to your own. I put off getting on the meds for at least 15 years longer than I should have done because of stories like this. They have been life changing lot positive for me with almost no downsides. In addition, I’ve read more than one story like this where the pers…

This! is what I believe not only in mental illness perspective but in every way. I'm bipolar type 2 and I have been on and off on medications for a long time and suffered a lot. For the past 4 years I've been continuously taking meds and my life, my work and my relationship with other people has improved and I'm quite stable. Like you said, people are different, the thing that works for one person doesn't necessarily…

Hey! I'm wondering how long it took you to get diagnosed as bipolar 2, and who diagnosed it - GP, psych? This last year I've been suffering depressive episodes that have really affected my capacity to function properly. They're always interspersed with really good days, maybe too good -- heaps of planning and ideas, unbridled optimism etc. It's hard to know what's considered to be the baseline for normal mood fluctuations.

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#26

Post by FourthProtocol » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:13 PM UTC

American use of antidepressants comes up at dinner conversation every so often. Stats are readily available, but what's less apparent is why it's so widespread in the US. Does anyone have any ideas why this is?

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#27

Post by escape_goat » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:17 PM UTC

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #15

psergeant wrote: post #4

The only thing that seems to be universally true about mental health is that we’re all different, and someone else’s experiences rarely apply perfectly to your own. I put off getting on the meds for at least 15 years longer than I should have done because of stories like this. They have been life changing lot positive for me with almost no downsides. In addition, I’ve read more than one story like this where the pers…

Keep in mind that for many people taking drugs is: a) not a choice they personally made (coercion by the school system or authorities or parents). b) they were lied to about the effects and side effects. c) they were prescribed 'off-label' which means essentially with no proven efficacy. When you say "Experiment, find what works for you" keep in mind how offensive that is to people who feel they were lied/coerced int…

I have strong feelings about your response.

There are people who were either medicated at a young age or forced to take medication through legal proceedings. Of those, most will have experienced the same hit-or-miss phenomenon with psychiatric medication. In some cases, however, this means that they were forced to take medications that had debilitating side-effects or didn't particularly work, and experienced serious stress trauma due to their ongoing helplessness in the situation.

I do not expect them to be any less capable than anyone else, as a result, of understanding that other people are not them. I do not expect them to be offended when other people describe experiences that are not theirs.

You're responding to the advice of someone who has taken medications voluntarily and had control over the process; this person is writing in response to an article by a man who, for all his bad experiences, was ALSO taking medications voluntarily.

The statement that you single out as objectionable is actually nearly universal advice, and reflects my own experience with medications and mental health problems.

If your comments about "how offensive that is" are based in your own experience as someone who was coercively medicated, I would be interested in hearing an explanation of why you find them objectionable. If they are not, however, I seriously question the value of your interjection into the conversation.

I am attempting to be gentle and moderate in my response and I apologize if it seems harsh to you.

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#28

Post by Broken_Hippo » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:22 PM UTC

presscast wrote: post #7

psergeant wrote: post #4

The only thing that seems to be universally true about mental health is that we’re all different, and someone else’s experiences rarely apply perfectly to your own. I put off getting on the meds for at least 15 years longer than I should have done because of stories like this. They have been life changing lot positive for me with almost no downsides. In addition, I’ve read more than one story like this where the pers…

In all fairness, though, these aren't isolated incidents. There seems to be some subgroup of the general population that suffers from SSRIs. That's what's interesting here -- what binds these people together as a group. In other words, brushing this aside as "just a bunch of individuals" isn't useful, nor is it satisfying anyone's intellectual curiosity.

Yes, it does. Some individuals react differently. Some individuals cannot take aspirin daily for heart benefits, some cannot take ibuprofen for pain relief. Both these drugs can have reactions with other medications. It isn't an insignificant portion of the population, but we shouldn't allow those individuals create a dialogue that scares others away from trying the drug.

If anything, we just need to spend a bit more time talking to folks about the possible side effects of the medications.

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#29

Post by escape_goat » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:24 PM UTC

presscast wrote: post #7

psergeant wrote: post #4

The only thing that seems to be universally true about mental health is that we’re all different, and someone else’s experiences rarely apply perfectly to your own. I put off getting on the meds for at least 15 years longer than I should have done because of stories like this. They have been life changing lot positive for me with almost no downsides. In addition, I’ve read more than one story like this where the pers…

In all fairness, though, these aren't isolated incidents. There seems to be some subgroup of the general population that suffers from SSRIs. That's what's interesting here -- what binds these people together as a group. In other words, brushing this aside as "just a bunch of individuals" isn't useful, nor is it satisfying anyone's intellectual curiosity.

They aren't isolated incidents, just as the testimonials from people who were really helped by the exact same drug aren't isolated incidents, and the testimonials from people who have experienced side-effects that were not discovered by the original qualification study are not isolated incidents.

Psychiatric medications, in many cases, do genuinely affect different people differently. This has been well known for a long time. It also contributes to the contrast between anecdotal clinical experience and what are often dismal statistical performances.

The difficulty is with people who feel that they have a grievance with the pharmaceutical companies and the medications themselves, when they actually have a grievance with the doctors who directed their care.

Re: Recovering Emotions After 24 Years on Antidepressants

#30

Post by JustThrowMeAway » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 12:30 PM UTC

    After almost 25 years of taking antidepressants,
    I had no emotion left whatsoever. I felt dead and
    wanted to be dead.

I wonder how to understand this.

If you have no emotions, can you still want something? Why would you want to die?

I tend to understand this sentence in a way that means she was suffering. But isn't suffering the same as experiencing negative emotions?

Or is this supposed to mean that she had no good emotions left, only painful ones?