Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#281

Post by exodust » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 5:44 AM UTC

sbov wrote: post #260

ryandrake wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think updates should happen when the user commands them to happen, not when the computer (or operating system vendor) decides when they should happen. If the user affirmatively commands the computer to update at a certain time, or on start-up or shutdown, fine. But why are we letting the operating system run the show?

Because most users would never set this and thus would never update.

It's not about that. Advanced users don't even have the option any more. MS could hide it deep in settings to disable update with 10 "are you sure" security risk dialogs. "yes i know the risks" etc, but no.... None of us can be trusted.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#282

Post by temporary_ » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 5:49 AM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #262

RandomTisk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really long greeting that says "your files are where you left them" that you can't speed up or cancel out of makes me want to kick puppies.

The last time I installed Windows most of the greeting messages came off as patronizing or subtly sinister, like that one. Throughout Windows’ history, even before I had ever used Macs, it has felt as if someone at Microsoft keeps having the wrong idea about what people adore about Macs, and tries to imitate that in a “we can do it better” way.

Initially I really wondering about the intention behind this new style of messages (casual and personal, lots of "we"), but now I think they are trying to get people used to the idea of "operating system as a service". It seems likely that this is where all these "We've got an update for you, just sit back ;-)" style of messages come from. Curiously, the bluescreen talks about "your computer" having an issue, though, with a sad smiley, no less.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#283

Post by tootahe45 » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 5:55 AM UTC

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

I switched to Ubuntu, gave up hope MS would come out with a Windows-lite with how big Win10 is getting, and how they're trying to put Win10 on smaller devices. A lot of devices that come with Win10 really shouldn't have such a bloated OS, and I mean that even if they're just going to be using Office.

Pleasantly surprised so far with Ubuntu, hardly any hacking to start coding and running databases etc.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#284

Post by shams93 » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 6:01 AM UTC

bArray wrote: post #268

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

This is exactly one of the main reasons why I switched to Linux, it doesn't do anything unless I let it or ask it to - with few exceptions. My anecdote: I was about to have an important meeting and needed to print off some sheets from my Windows-based netbook. The power was low ( FYI the Linux experience has been mostly great. There's been maybe a problem once a year, with some driver or package issue - but most of t…

I switched to linux in 1998, it was much harder back then now its arguably easier to install ubuntu than to upgrade windows 10.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#285

Post by BuckRogers » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

exodust wrote: post #279

BuckRogers wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's easy enough to prevent if you peek into the update settings[0][1]. I have restarts blocked from 8AM-2AM, due to not wanting it doing it during the day when I walk away from work. You would want the opposite. Set that to 5PM-11AM and you'll never have a nightly restart again. I've used Mac and Linux but had issues with all of them, worst being desktop Linux with basic things (for a power user), and Mac software…

That update option window says "max 18 hours". Doesn't help when leaving computer for 24 hours+ to render. The other thing is you might have critical work happening, and really don't want any risk of problems due to updates. So even if you're not using PC, you don't want updates to happen for a couple of weeks or longer until project isn't so critical. The forced updates, even for advanced users, is the single reason…

If you are not going to be at the desk for 24+ hours at all, then you would hit this slider[0]. Updates don't come through that often though. A patch every 30 days, a service pack every 6 months. I run 30 days behind on patches, and 365 days behind on service packs. If your machine is used that often for 24+ hour rendering projects, you might want a non-home edition of Windows10 such as LTSC.

I do agree though that there should be a simple option, "do not restart for updates until I click on a prompt". I'm on the same page, but I'm not convinced the situation is as dire as everyone makes it out to be.

[0]https://i.imgur.com/XMTGtGr.png

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#286

Post by exodust » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 6:09 AM UTC

diminoten wrote: post #269

userbinator wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former is blown out of proportion because the vast majority of vulnerabilities are only locally exploitable, and the rest is mostly "visit shady site in IE with default settings" with a tiny bit of "hackers can own your system if you connect it directly to the Internet and don't do anything other than leave it on." My thoughts on the above are, respectively, "meh", "why would you use IE with default settings" , a…

So you pick "have my data and identity stolen" over "my computer occasionally restarts itself while I'm asleep". Alright, good luck!

You missed the very true point they made about overstated vulnerabilities. The odds of actually having your data compromised due to not updating for a few weeks or even months, is low. Particularly if your browsing and computer usage doesn't involve downloading dodgy software and browsing to shady unfamiliar websites, and you're at least half aware of sensible computer use, password and login use.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#287

Post by avip » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 6:09 AM UTC

warent wrote: post #118

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

I'm by no means a low-level OS developer but I can't help but wonder, wouldn't it be possible for Windows to partition off part of the disk to copy system-critical files and then quietly stage updates in the partition (all of this with minimal thread priority so that if some other process demands resources/threads, it will pause/defer itself!). When the staged update is complete, it gives you a friendly notification…

This is how embedded devices do firmware upgrade - I'm not aware of any other sane & safe way to upgrade.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#288

Post by anticensor » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 6:10 AM UTC

tinus_hn wrote: post #259

tom_ wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My own humble tip - switch this shit off. Here's what I've found to work for me: 0. install whichever Windows 10 has the group policy editor - I've got Windows 10 Pro, I think. (I'm at home right now and my work laptop is at the office) 1. run gpedit.msc 2. Go to Local Computer Policy\Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Update 3. Double-click Configure Automatic Updates 4. Set u…

The group policy editor is not available in the home versions.

It does work if you grab one from Pro copies.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#289

Post by EatYourGreens » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 6:14 AM UTC

paavoova wrote: post #74

coeroble wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux desktop is in its best shape since its inception, and yet a thousand light years away from Windows.

That depends on your needs and values. As far as freedom is concerned, Windows is a far cry from what Linux offers. Windows restricts you to NTFS as root filesystem, for example. Windows offers no open-source disk encryption. Linux distros come out of the box with great integrated tools and workflow, something Microsoft only wishes to emulates with its Linux subsystem. But Windows aims to restrict your workflow to si…

> But Windows aims to restrict your workflow to singular proprietary applications like VS.

Out of curiosity: how does Microsoft stand in the way of developing with GCC and Clang?

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#290

Post by msaharia » Sun, Oct 07, 2018, 6:40 AM UTC

bArray wrote: post #268

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

This is exactly one of the main reasons why I switched to Linux, it doesn't do anything unless I let it or ask it to - with few exceptions. My anecdote: I was about to have an important meeting and needed to print off some sheets from my Windows-based netbook. The power was low ( FYI the Linux experience has been mostly great. There's been maybe a problem once a year, with some driver or package issue - but most of t…

I shifted to Linux full time this year from MacOS. The only thing I desperately need is a replacement for is MS Office. Any ideas? I'm a power user, which Google word is simply not good for.