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The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

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Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#91

Post by awakeasleep »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #50
roc wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethics aside, Google shouldn't seek to deprive nations of tax revenue because they benefit in no small part from that money. They hire employees educated with government money, buy research projects funded with government money, build data centers that depend upon public infrastructure, etc. Frankly, without government money, Google would not exist. By gaming the tax systems, they're not only flipping the bird to the…

Most of their tax money would not be spent on the specific items you describe. For every $100 google spends in taxes, roughly $16 will be spent on education (mostly education for underachievers who would never work at google), $4.90 will be spent on transportation infrastructure, $0.30 will be spent on basic research and $0.1 will be spent on communications infrastructure. On the other hand, for every $100 google pay…

What you say is true and I think you both make good points.

When someone above asked "Why would Google want to pay a higher tax rate?" I thought, they would if it was in their best interest- I think we all agree on this.

Now here is the crazy part of my post- A company like Google which could conceivably bring in billions of dollars by changing its tax setup, should have some bargaining power. I don't think anything like this exists anywhere, but wouldn't it be cool if Google could get lawmakers to state that x% of Google's tax dollars will set up schools that focused on teaching 'gifted' children technology? And y% pays for technology infrastructure? Wouldn't that be fukken sweet? It would give Google an incentive to keep money in the USA, give back to what gave birth to it, reduce its burden of finding and educating new hires, reduce it's burden of setting up infrastructure, and benefit society across the board without having to wait for a some Google Billionaire to have a ethical epiphany in his old age and attempt philanthropy.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#92

Post by dennisgorelik »

Anechoic wrote: post #71
lionhearted wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That seems absurd by free enterprise standards and I am genuinely curious to know why refusing to do this would be called "evil." When taxes come up, it tends not to be a well-thought, cohesive, pros-and-cons thing. It tends to be an emotional/identity thing. Some people think and almost always argue it'd be a good thing if companies gave more money over to governments. Me, I think it's very good for the world on e…

run amazing free services (search, Gmail, Google Earth, Google Maps, Google Finance, Google News, Google Voice, Google Reader, Feedburner, many many others). Also, they're internally investing in energy and robotics like the auto-driven cars thing None of those products/services would be possible but for the government spending taxpayer money to develop the infrastructure behind those services (the internet, roads, G…

Judging from this downvoted comment -- this discussion is overtaken by libertarian crowd (which I'm part of). Still it's not a good idea to down-vote comments that you do not agree with. Down-voting is intended for boring/offensive comments which you do not want to see in further discussions.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#93

Post by lionhearted »

Retric wrote: post #76
lionhearted wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if my income is $250 million? It still evil for the government to claim a percentage of that to provide services? To make $250 million honestly, you'd have to produce value far in excess of $250 million. And yes, taxing people for producing value with their own labor is wrong to me. This is not an argument that all taxation is bad. You need taxes to run society. But taxing earned income seems wrong to me - the…

Edit: Fixed, sorry had a bad copy and paste. You sit at home and come up with a great new piece of software that’s worth 250 million and sell it IBM. Why should you pay more taxes than the bum sitting at home next door? After all you did not use land or resources protected by your countries military and police forces. You did not use public infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams) or government backed institutions (bank…

Edit: You completed edited your comment since I replied... the new version is a lot more reasonable. Here's what I originally wrote, which doesn't 100% apply any more:

Did you actually read my comment? I think you're reacting to something I didn't say - taxes are fine, and you'd wind up paying for services you use in property taxes.

Land, resources, military, police, roads, bridges, dams, banks (really shouldn't be government provided as that causes all sorts of problems like we've recently seen, but that's a side discussion), schools - those are all local-based services. You'd pay for where you were using them, when you were using them.

> PS: If you disagree you can always leave and renounce citizenship.

Totally unnecessary and counterproductive to a decent reasonable discussion.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#94

Post by tyn »

dtf wrote: post #14
jbooth wrote: post #3

From the article: "Google's practices are very similar to those at countless other global companies operating across a wide range of industries," So, why's the article about Google? Shouldn't the article be about "countless global companies" bilking us for billions? I'm astonished at the lack of outrage on this issue every time it comes up.

Because Google have a public image of behaving ethically. Everyone expects banks and evil multinationals to do this kind of thing. Is it ethical to avoid paying tax as an individual? Many would say no. But when a company does it, they lay their blame on the shareholders and the market. So the more outrage about this subject, the better. Our governments can either raise taxes or lower taxes. But they shouldn't let ind…

Can someone explain why companies should pay taxes at all? Their shareholders should and they do pay taxes according to their income but what's the purpose of an extra taxation to a legal entity?

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#95

Post by tow21 »

loumf wrote: post #53
lionhearted wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That seems absurd by free enterprise standards and I am genuinely curious to know why refusing to do this would be called "evil." When taxes come up, it tends not to be a well-thought, cohesive, pros-and-cons thing. It tends to be an emotional/identity thing. Some people think and almost always argue it'd be a good thing if companies gave more money over to governments. Me, I think it's very good for the world on e…

It's neither good nor evil. Google's board and executives are legally obligated to maximize shareholder value. Shareholders can sue otherwise. If governments want more tax, they should close loopholes and Google will comply with the law.

"Google's board and executives are legally obligated to maximize shareholder value. Shareholders can sue otherwise."

Common fallacy. No they're not, and no they can't. See, eg

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1013744

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#96

Post by adbge »

dbingham wrote: post #30
lionhearted wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That seems absurd by free enterprise standards and I am genuinely curious to know why refusing to do this would be called "evil." When taxes come up, it tends not to be a well-thought, cohesive, pros-and-cons thing. It tends to be an emotional/identity thing. Some people think and almost always argue it'd be a good thing if companies gave more money over to governments. Me, I think it's very good for the world on e…

Well, it's up to England's citizens to change the efficiency of England's government. Google is doing great things. By but dodging its taxes, it is forcing ordinary citizens to pay more. Or make do with less. It doesn't matter whether it would do better with the money. I think I could do better with my tax money than the US government. But then, that's not my choice to make. My job is to work to make sure that the US…

> It's like saying I need your sandwich more than you do. I'm hungrier, I could make better use of it, therefore I should get your sandwich. Even if I could legally take your sandwich. It's still not okay. It's your sandwich! If I take it, you go hungry.

Really, the same reasoning could be applied to the government with regards to taxation.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#97

Post by jdietrich »

lionhearted wrote: post #16
grellas wrote: post #13

Google is "flying a banner of doing no evil, and then they're perpetrating evil under our noses," says Abraham J. Briloff, a professor emeritus of accounting at Baruch College who has examined Google's tax disclosures. Maybe it is the lawyer in me, but why wouldn't any international business do whatever it could legally do to minimize its taxes? I understand that governments might want to consider these as loopholes…

> That seems absurd by free enterprise standards and I am genuinely curious to know why refusing to do this would be called "evil." When taxes come up, it tends not to be a well-thought, cohesive, pros-and-cons thing. It tends to be an emotional/identity thing. Some people think and almost always argue it'd be a good thing if companies gave more money over to governments. Me, I think it's very good for the world on e…

It's a curious thought, but I actually think I'd prefer to be a subject of Google than Her Majesty's Government. Larry, Sergei, if you're reading - please make a bid for UK PLC. It's weighed down with debts and the current management are a shower of shite, but the headquarters are pretty swanky and I hear there are some great engineers on the payroll in Cambridge.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#98

Post by jackfoxy »

I see this story delivering a full dose of irony that will be lost on so many people. Google is a company that chose to affiliate with progressive causes and personalities almost from the start. And one of the central tenants of progressivism is business and the wealthy should pay their fair share of taxes (meaning a proportionally higher share). But this state of affairs can never really be reached. (Please give me a pass on this assertion, the argument is long. Doesn't this story provide an iota of supporting evidence?) Ultimately people pay taxes, and there are many more poor and middle class than rich.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#99

Post by MalUK »

lionhearted wrote: post #16
grellas wrote: post #13

Google is "flying a banner of doing no evil, and then they're perpetrating evil under our noses," says Abraham J. Briloff, a professor emeritus of accounting at Baruch College who has examined Google's tax disclosures. Maybe it is the lawyer in me, but why wouldn't any international business do whatever it could legally do to minimize its taxes? I understand that governments might want to consider these as loopholes…

> That seems absurd by free enterprise standards and I am genuinely curious to know why refusing to do this would be called "evil." When taxes come up, it tends not to be a well-thought, cohesive, pros-and-cons thing. It tends to be an emotional/identity thing. Some people think and almost always argue it'd be a good thing if companies gave more money over to governments. Me, I think it's very good for the world on e…

Why is England mentioned in this comment? Google Ireland is based in the Republic of Ireland, which is not related to England.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#100

Post by elai »

Aegean wrote: post #78

this is one reason youtube is banned from Turkey, the minister claims it is because they make revenue in turkey and don't pay tax. It might be a valid reason. The second reason though (going off topic) is because they don't have anyone to talk to in turkey for censoring stuff, which is very evil of them.

And every other website in the world that might make advertising revenue off of turkish customers and have no censorship contacts?
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