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Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

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Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#211

Post by blep-arsh »

ragequitta wrote: post #188
cm2187 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't change the fact that you end up having to actively manage the OS not screwing up your workflow, that's not how I would define "good". Plus I would always forget.

The alternative is horrifying though. No regular user ever updates their stuff unless they're forced to, and in a world of increasingly horrifying botnets that can cripple the world economy on command, I can see why having the average user update automatically is necessary. Note that the average user (even myself, who is fairly good at keeping the latest version of everything installed) wouldn't have this problematic…

Major Windows 10 releases continue to receive security updates for quite some time after a new release drops, so force-feeding major releases to home users is not even necessary to keep users secure. As for warnings, as soon as the update is auto-applied you lose the ability to reboot without having your OS replaced and possibly rendered inoperable. Security updates are quick and mostly painless, on the other hand, but home users don't get to choose what to install.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#212

Post by mr_toad »

StreamBright wrote: post #138
seiferteric wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me. With the resources MS has, they could rebuild a new OS from the ground up and finally get rid of all the cruft and legacy issues in windows once and for all and still support legacy software via emulation, virtualization or even a compatibility layer a la WINE or WSL. Why don't they do it? Google is building fuchsia, Apple/NeXT was able to take BSD and build MacOS X, certainly MS can do it right?

And lose 90% of the user base (corporate users) along the way. I think at this stage they should just introduce a new OS for home users that copies the best parts of MacOS (non intrusive updates, UX, common task bar / top bar, single folder installs, unix/posix paths) and add the best parts of Windows (user space video card drivers, ???) and add some from VMS (keep file versions / purge). While at it, they could also…

They don’t want home users using a different OS either, because they might start asking for it at work. I’m pretty sure the only reason MS even makes a home version of Windows is to indoctrinate new generations.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#213

Post by doubt_me »

gruez wrote: post #201
doubt_me wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://forums.mydigitallife.net/

Just to be clear: this is not the "legal" way. You won't end up with FBI busting down your door or getting a letter from your ISP/microsoft, but it's by no means "legit".

Untouched ISOs for virtual machines are totally legal

I don't trust torrent sites or magnet links sorry not sorry

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#214

Post by kgwxd »

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

This also exactly describes the modern gaming experience. It's infuriating.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#215

Post by sarreph »

kens wrote: post #115

I'm a tolerant person, but recently I switched from Windows to Mac because the forced Windows updates kept messing me up. One time I left a long simulation running overnight. In the morning, I was greeted by a computer that had automatically rebooted to install updates, killing my simulation. Another instance was my daughter's birthday party, where she wanted to show a movie. The computer decided to spend an hour doi…

It's funny you mention this as I had a very similar thought the other night when clean-installing an old gaming PC to try some VR stuff on.

I'm used to using a Mac, and the update notifications can definitely be annoying, but Windows' default update behaviour is another level of excruciatingly bad UX. I assume — perhaps wrongly — that you can stop windows from installing updates on shutdown/restart. However, the other night (on Windows), forcing an update on shutdown was the only obvious option available to me. I can't fathom what the rationale is to force this kind of experience on users.

When I want to shut my computer down, it's because I want it to turn off, not start a new (oftentimes looping) operation to install software that I won't immediately see (or need to see) the benefit of.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#216

Post by x0 »

creato wrote: post #67
Angostura wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say those screen issues sounds as if you have a dodgy GPU there, and the battery drain also sounds like a hardware fault. Have you had it checked out?

In 2 years I've had 5 macbook pros. This is the least faulty of them all, I'm not risking this one.

Sounds like you're the least lucky person on earth. I've had my MacBook Air for 5 years now, I've dropped it on concrete/tiles multiple times, it's dented as hell and the battery's wearing a bit, but it works just fine

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#217

Post by bschwindHN »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #180
warent wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm by no means a low-level OS developer but I can't help but wonder, wouldn't it be possible for Windows to partition off part of the disk to copy system-critical files and then quietly stage updates in the partition (all of this with minimal thread priority so that if some other process demands resources/threads, it will pause/defer itself!). When the staged update is complete, it gives you a friendly notification…

> wouldn't it be possible for Windows to partition off part of the disk This is what ChromeOS and Android do. At least on Android Pixel phones, there's A and B partitions for each of the boot, system, and vendor partitions. The bootloader tracks whether A or B should be booted. Userspace downloads the updates and writes to the opposite-than-booted partition. On reboot, the bootloader boots the latest partition. Downs…

This is also how microcontrollers like the ESP32 do over-the-air updates while keeping a "safe" factory firmware version.

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#218

Post by [deleted] »

Jedd wrote: post #141
mehrdadn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already done though? It's known as focus stealing prevention. One of my gripes with Linux is that it doesn't work well there, but I've found it is already very well handled in Windows; the trouble only comes up if (a) you pause too long for it to realize you're still typing, or (b) the app goes VERY out of its way to steal your keyboard (like hooking global keyboard messages) which is extremely abnormal. I'm…

> One of my gripes with Linux is that it doesn't work well... Linux is not a window manager.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#219

Post by [deleted] »

ip26 wrote: post #160
mehrdadn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to work fine pre-Win-10 where they gave you the updates and let you install them when the time was right for you. This stubborn obsession with the idea that no sane user could possibly have anything more critical in their life than installing whatever code comes out of your hands instantly is just nuts.

pre-Win-10, Windows was also considered the most bug-infested zombie-farm around. idea that no sane user could possibly have anything more critical in their life than installing whatever code comes out The problem is when you examine user behavior, they inexplicably seem to have something more critical than installing updates, 24/7/365. Which is how bot farms begin.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft suspends Windows 10 update, citing data loss reports

#220

Post by R_haterade »

gerdesj wrote: post #162
pizzazzaro wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? Because ChromeOS is just a Gentoo fork where google replaced the package manager to support their binaries instead. Programs running in memory just stay running, even if you update the files that are those programs. This is how Linux works. Restart them when you need the new version. Its clean. Its easy. I kept watching netflix as firefox compiled (~30 mins), and got to close the browser after the next…

I didn't know that (Gentoo user). I suppose it has more in common with Sabayon as a binary jobbie. The full Gentoo experience is not for the faint of heart but when you have spend hours watching compiler etc output and fixing breakage that would bring most users of an OS to their knees, you lose the dread inherent in OS updates. You are nearly (and generally) correct about programs just stay running even when overwri…

Several years ago I remember reading on stack overflow about how someone had managed to rm the ls program on a Linux system. Your anecdote reminded me of the fix. I’ll do some googling and see if I can find it. If I can, I’ll post it here.

Hats off to people like you. You’re what we mere mortals aspire to, and it’s always encouraging to hear that someone else has attained a level of mastery. Makes it seem more achievable!

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