The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives • Hacker News Board

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#71

Post by blattimwind » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:26 PM UTC

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #68

blattimwind wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The dutch reach is with the right hand, which forces you to turn the upper body to reach the handle. Supposedly this sort-of forces you to do a over the shoulder check. I think if you were taught proper driving technique, then there is no need for such concortions. You will always check the mirror and look over your shoulder before opening the door, even if only subconsciously. Just like you always check lengthwi…

I think it also depends on whether you have auto-folding mirrors. (I was taught to check my rear-view mirror before opening the door. That doesn't work in my new car with folding mirrors; so now I sometimes use the dutch reach, even though I was never taught it back in the day)

I only know the auto-folding kind that folds in after you lock the car... usually by holding the lock button or pressing it twice quickly.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#72

Post by Kim_Bruning » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:26 PM UTC

dminor wrote: post #54

Swizec wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who’s gotten doored once or twice and nearly doored all the time on my Boosted Board I make sure to shoulder check prodigiously when driving to the point it annoys my girlfriend. I also make sure to always open passenger doors with the wrong hand when Ubering. I don’t think it’s ever saved anyones life, but I do what I can. Biggest thing cars can do and I always do is don’t pass a cyclist only to turn righ…

There's no such thing as the American driving test - every state has their own test and their own rules. Using the far right lane to turn is supposed to be safer for cyclists by reducing the possibility of right hook collisions. It is, however, less convenient for cyclists since they may be blocked by a car waiting to turn. California requires cars to merge into the bike lane before making a turn. Oregon on the other…

Netherlands driving instruction back in the day taught to take the cycling lane[1] for turning after first mirror-mirror-shoulder checking to be sure it's free. Reasoning is indeed to prevent a right hook collision after you thought you'd already checked.

[1] Note that busier roads tend to have cycling traffic completely separated onto a separate cycling path. But there's still roads with cycling lanes or shared with cycling traffic, so the rule is still used.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#73

Post by Kim_Bruning » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

jariz wrote: post #69

Every time a article like this is posted I'm just flabbergasted at the fact that 'looking behind you before actually opening a door' is such a foreign concept to Americans.

I don't even care about the cyclists[1]; I'll survive being hit by them }:-)>. It's the other motorized traffic I'm worried about!

[1] I actually do. Maybe it'll be me someday. But for the sake of argument let's pretend.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#74

Post by kbenson » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

blattimwind wrote: post #63

kbenson wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After the part about doing visual checks > When it is visually safe, hold the door handle with the left hand, and open the door using the right hand as far as is necessary and exit the vehicle. That is the Dutch reach, to my understanding. 99% Invisible did a story on it a couple years ago, and that was covered here.[1] 600 comments. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12674533

No. The dutch reach is with the right hand, which forces you to turn the upper body to reach the handle. Supposedly this sort-of forces you to do a over the shoulder check. I think if you were taught proper driving technique, then there is no need for such concortions. You will always check the mirror and look over your shoulder before opening the door, even if only subconsciously. Just like you always check lengthwi…

Yes, please read the directions that were quoted carefully. Specifically, "and open the door using the right hand as far as is necessary and exit the vehicle."

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#75

Post by Kim_Bruning » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

rgj wrote: post #19

I'm Dutch. I've never heard of this, nor has anybody I asked about this. I've never even seen someone in the driver's seat use their right hand to open the door. Dooring is not an issue here either since Dutch cyclists tend to anticipate very well. What we do have here in the Netherlands are bike lanes, so in a lot of places the bikes pass the parked/stopping cars on the right hand side.

Did you used to learn "spiegel spiegel schouder" before getting out instead?

It doesn't work so great on modern cars with folding mirrors though. I think maybe it got introduced more recently?

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#76

Post by blattimwind » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:33 PM UTC

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #72

dminor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as the American driving test - every state has their own test and their own rules. Using the far right lane to turn is supposed to be safer for cyclists by reducing the possibility of right hook collisions. It is, however, less convenient for cyclists since they may be blocked by a car waiting to turn. California requires cars to merge into the bike lane before making a turn. Oregon on the other…

Netherlands driving instruction back in the day taught to take the cycling lane[1] for turning after first mirror-mirror-shoulder checking to be sure it's free. Reasoning is indeed to prevent a right hook collision after you thought you'd already checked. [1] Note that busier roads tend to have cycling traffic completely separated onto a separate cycling path. But there's still roads with cycling lanes or shared with…

In Germany dedicated bike lanes have a solid line, so you're not allowed to cross into them for turning. Radschutzstreifen (translation n/a, like a bike lane, but it has a dashed line and is usually put on roads as an afterthought, so it's usually too narrow for larger vehicles to pass each other without using the Radschutzstreifen; it's a great contortion, really) on the other hand have a dashed line and generally it's a good idea to just use them for turning, properly switching "into" the lane, of course.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#77

Post by Kim_Bruning » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:35 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #6

dep_b wrote: post #4

I'm always using the Dutch Mirror which is that shiny reflective thing attached to the driver's door which I cleverly abuse to see if something is coming from behind before I get out of the car. I've been testing it a lot in The Netherlands. Nobody died so far so it must work but YMMV. -- edit: I have a Dutch driver's license and definitely would've known about it.

In Germany you have to do a look over your left shoulder, because that mirror isn't enough to see when bikes/vehicles are left of you.

Was in germany today on the autobahn as a "Nur Links" driver. (ok, and maybe a bit of rechts, but I have to keep up the reputation, right?) ... It definitely pays to keep an eye on the left mirror and shoulder. Even at 200 km/h, it's almost guaranteed that there will be someone lurking there going MUCH faster than you.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#78

Post by blattimwind » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:37 PM UTC

jariz wrote: post #69

Every time a article like this is posted I'm just flabbergasted at the fact that 'looking behind you before actually opening a door' is such a foreign concept to Americans.

My impression is that driving education in the US is rather lacking overall, though it's of course not federalized, so there are probably fifty shades of deficiency. (That being said many driving schools here suck as well, though that's mostly a money drain for the driving students; 40 % or so failure rate in the practical exam).

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#79

Post by jorams » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:40 PM UTC

anotherevan wrote: post #67

I've gone through bouts of trying to adopt this habit. One thing that makes it harder is that the door handle in my car is designed to make it easy to open with the door-side hand. It is forwards on the door (near the hinged end) and opens by pulling the handle back. If the handle was at the back of the door it would promote the habit as it would actually be easier to open the door by reaching across with the opposit…

> I wonder where the door handles are located in the majority of cars in Holland.

The hinged end, just like yours.

Re: The Dutch Reach: A No-Tech Way to Save Bicyclists’ Lives

#80

Post by u801e » Sat, Oct 06, 2018, 11:45 PM UTC

Another no-tech way would be to repeal the keep as far right as practicable law that specifically applies to bicycles so that they have, by default, the right to the entire lane they're in. Then the general slow vehicle law would apply (meaning that one uses the rightmost lane available for traffic unless passing another vehicle or preparing to make a left turn).