The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions • Hacker News Board

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#51

Post by ced » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 2:58 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #13

Google is "flying a banner of doing no evil, and then they're perpetrating evil under our noses," says Abraham J. Briloff, a professor emeritus of accounting at Baruch College who has examined Google's tax disclosures. Maybe it is the lawyer in me, but why wouldn't any international business do whatever it could legally do to minimize its taxes? I understand that governments might want to consider these as loopholes…

why wouldn't any international business do whatever it could legally do to minimize its taxes?

As a lawyer, what's your perspective on lobbying?

If the laws are ultimately chosen by the companies and the wealthiest, then I don't agree that "anything legal is fair".

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#52

Post by camiller » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 2:59 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #9

jbooth wrote: post #3

From the article: "Google's practices are very similar to those at countless other global companies operating across a wide range of industries," So, why's the article about Google? Shouldn't the article be about "countless global companies" bilking us for billions? I'm astonished at the lack of outrage on this issue every time it comes up.

Because countless global companies don't claim to be "not evil". Anyone Google hires in the UK (up 'til now anyway) has been educated at the expense of the taxpayer, for example. If someone breaks into their offce, the police will show up to investigate. Why shouldn't they pay their fair share?

Yes, and those taxpayer educated employees go on to pay income tax...rather than drawing welfare (or whatever you call it in the UK). In general the better the education, the higher the pay and the greater the income tax revenue from those employed individuals.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#53

Post by loumf » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 2:59 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #16

grellas wrote: post #13

Google is "flying a banner of doing no evil, and then they're perpetrating evil under our noses," says Abraham J. Briloff, a professor emeritus of accounting at Baruch College who has examined Google's tax disclosures. Maybe it is the lawyer in me, but why wouldn't any international business do whatever it could legally do to minimize its taxes? I understand that governments might want to consider these as loopholes…

> That seems absurd by free enterprise standards and I am genuinely curious to know why refusing to do this would be called "evil." When taxes come up, it tends not to be a well-thought, cohesive, pros-and-cons thing. It tends to be an emotional/identity thing. Some people think and almost always argue it'd be a good thing if companies gave more money over to governments. Me, I think it's very good for the world on e…

It's neither good nor evil. Google's board and executives are legally obligated to maximize shareholder value. Shareholders can sue otherwise. If governments want more tax, they should close loopholes and Google will comply with the law.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#54

Post by jbooth » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 3:01 PM UTC

dtf wrote: post #14

jbooth wrote: post #3

From the article: "Google's practices are very similar to those at countless other global companies operating across a wide range of industries," So, why's the article about Google? Shouldn't the article be about "countless global companies" bilking us for billions? I'm astonished at the lack of outrage on this issue every time it comes up.

Because Google have a public image of behaving ethically. Everyone expects banks and evil multinationals to do this kind of thing. Is it ethical to avoid paying tax as an individual? Many would say no. But when a company does it, they lay their blame on the shareholders and the market. So the more outrage about this subject, the better. Our governments can either raise taxes or lower taxes. But they shouldn't let ind…

>Because Google have a public image of behaving ethically. Everyone expects banks and evil multinationals to do this kind of thing.

I hate that crap. It's possibly the worst thing about our media.

Mountain-top removal by coal mining company devastates 100 SQ mile ecosystem in West Virginia? Doesn't even make the paper.

Al Gore's electricity bill is high? PAGE ONE BABY. Al Gore's electricity bill is approximately 1 / 100,000,000 or so of the problem. But it makes us feel good to give do-gooders their comeuppance. Serves them right, for trying to improve things and making us feel bad that we don't do more ourselves.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#55

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 3:02 PM UTC

borism wrote: post #49

rmc wrote: post #22

In Ireland, these kinds of tax breaks are one of the foundations of our economy. They aren't viewed as a way to give a hand out to the big companies, but as a way to create jobs. This article mentions that 2,000 people are employed in Google Dublin. Given Microsoft, Amazon, Intel, IBM and Sun also operate, there's easily 10,000+ people employed thanks to our low tax rate. There are only 1,000,000 people employed in I…

And that's the reason Ireland has something like 1000% external debt to GDP [1] - politicians and local businessmen alike got so drunk with their success of luring in corps that they assumed it will continue forever. The reality is however, that taxes will have to be raised and the corporations will leave for yet another island paradise, and that will result in social catastrophe either way. [1] http://en.wikipedia.o…

Um, Ireland had a big property bubble, which is the cause of their current troubles.

High corporate tax rates didn't prevent a property bubble in the US or Spain, why would they have prevented one in Ireland?

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#56

Post by llimllib » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 3:04 PM UTC

jbooth wrote: post #3

From the article: "Google's practices are very similar to those at countless other global companies operating across a wide range of industries," So, why's the article about Google? Shouldn't the article be about "countless global companies" bilking us for billions? I'm astonished at the lack of outrage on this issue every time it comes up.

> bilking us for billions

It's my understanding that the way we've defined fiduciary duty (roughly speaking) requires public corporations to do this if it's legal. Can anyone comment on that?

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#57

Post by nhebb » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 3:04 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #13

Google is "flying a banner of doing no evil, and then they're perpetrating evil under our noses," says Abraham J. Briloff, a professor emeritus of accounting at Baruch College who has examined Google's tax disclosures. Maybe it is the lawyer in me, but why wouldn't any international business do whatever it could legally do to minimize its taxes? I understand that governments might want to consider these as loopholes…

I can't speak for others, but my alarm wasn't with Google. Instead it was with a tax system that allows these kinds of loopholes. When people talk of expiring the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250k, my jaded response is that it will probably only affect those that are well to do but not really rich. I think the really rich can afford tax lawyers that let them avoid substantial taxes via other loopholes.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#58

Post by tomjen3 » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 3:05 PM UTC

scaleordie wrote: post #2

What was my tax rate again? Oh yes, somewhere around 40%... Nice to see that everyone is doing their share.

Well better start working on getting it down, rather than get annoyed at Google.

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#59

Post by borism » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 3:05 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #55

borism wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the reason Ireland has something like 1000% external debt to GDP [1] - politicians and local businessmen alike got so drunk with their success of luring in corps that they assumed it will continue forever. The reality is however, that taxes will have to be raised and the corporations will leave for yet another island paradise, and that will result in social catastrophe either way. [1] http://en.wikipedia.o…

Um, Ireland had a big property bubble, which is the cause of their current troubles. High corporate tax rates didn't prevent a property bubble in the US or Spain, why would they have prevented one in Ireland?

Um, Ireland's structural problems are not limited to property bubble? Perhaps it's the symptom, not the cause?

Re: The Tax Haven That's Saving Google Billions

#60

Post by aristidb » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 3:05 PM UTC

Does Google not pay plenty in income tax on its employees, who in fact do generate that precious intellectual property? Looking only at taxed profits is misleading.