How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
articles.latimes.com
How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
1–10 of 52 posts
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#2Interesting. The advice here reminds me of the “complaints go up” dialogue from Saving Private Ryan. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dKbdE5LOGNQ
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#3People who are suffering from trauma don't need advice. They need comfort and support.
Comfort in, dump out is a simple rule that makes sense in many situations. Breast cancer is given as an example in the article.
I think it breaks down in many of life's situations, though.
What if the trauma is self-inflicted? At what point do those outside the ring become enablers?
For example, a friend of yours refuses to learn how to manage resources. Every week is a new crisis due to running out of money or being late.
At what point do you sit down with your friend and explain how their lack of planning is hurting them?
Back to disease, what if the person is suffering negative health effects due to being overweight? And yet they refuse to change their junk food diet.
What then? Listen, offer to do dishes and make a pot roast?
Or something more likely to help the person make the connection that their health is in their own hands?
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#4[deleted]
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#5> stepped into the hall with Katie's husband, Pat. "I wasn't prepared for this," she told him. "I don't know if I can handle it."
Be suspicious of people who you don't know that well, but all of the sudden they pop up in a moment of crisis. Sometimes they want to be part of it and go around and brag to others how their friend / relative is suffering. It's just a source of gossip for them. Then they get the sympathy-by-proxy and they get others to pity them and so on.
As a general rule I find that people who want to celebrate with you when something good happens and are happy for you are more likely to be a better friend than the ones who show up when you're in trouble.
> "Can I bring you a pot roast?"
Also don't say "what can I do to help?". People as a rule will just say, "Sure, thank you" but the understanding is you're not serious and you just said it because you're expected to say. You might have meant it, but they don't know that. Like the article mentions, say something like "Would you like a pot roast?".
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#6So does that mean no one should ever dump into the very center of the circle (even if you're the husband)?
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#7Any tips of this kind of material for a more professional setting? I have to give advice professionally and one of the harder parts for me is giving it in the context of office politics.
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#8People who are suffering from trauma don't need advice. They need comfort and support. Comfort in, dump out is a simple rule that makes sense in many situations. Breast cancer is given as an example in the article. I think it breaks down in many of life's situations, though. What if the trauma is self-inflicted? At what point do those outside the ring become enablers? For example, a friend of yours refuses to learn h…
It's a reasonable position, although a counter-argument is that for many people, a self-inflicted problem such as being overweight isn't all that amenable to conscious control. So, giving the advice: "you're overweight, it causes many other problems, you should do something about that" isn't especially useful. An article in the Atlantic from 2015 summarized this: "Victims of childhood sexual abuse are far more likely to become obese adults. New research shows that early trauma is so damaging that it can disrupt a person’s entire psychology and metabolism." The depth of the problem is beyond the kind of repair possible with explanations and advice.
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#9People who are suffering from trauma don't need advice. They need comfort and support. Comfort in, dump out is a simple rule that makes sense in many situations. Breast cancer is given as an example in the article. I think it breaks down in many of life's situations, though. What if the trauma is self-inflicted? At what point do those outside the ring become enablers? For example, a friend of yours refuses to learn h…
It's a reasonable position, although a counter-argument is that for many people, a self-inflicted problem such as being overweight isn't all that amenable to conscious control. So, giving the advice: "you're overweight, it causes many other problems, you should do something about that" isn't especially useful. An article in the Atlantic from 2015 summarized this: "Victims of childhood sexual abuse are far more likely…
[deleted]
Re: How not to say the wrong thing (2013)
#10People who are suffering from trauma don't need advice. They need comfort and support. Comfort in, dump out is a simple rule that makes sense in many situations. Breast cancer is given as an example in the article. I think it breaks down in many of life's situations, though. What if the trauma is self-inflicted? At what point do those outside the ring become enablers? For example, a friend of yours refuses to learn h…
Both of your scenarios assume that the issue is due to some fixable personal failing, and both of those assumptions are unfounded. “Lack of planning” is how you might describe “poor executive functioning” if you were to attach a moral weight to it; in reality, poor executive functioning is itself often a symptom of trauma, particularly complex or developmental trauma. It is also a feature of autism, particularly in how it manifests differently among women. Similarly, there are many people for whom no known weight loss method has worked without intolerable costs. (Suicidal ideation, dramatic hair loss, debilitating fatigue or cognitive deficits.) This seems to be one of those things that people often refuse to believe, instead gas lighting the hell out of the people who suffer from this. I have known people who’s compulsive behavior absolutely contributed to their weight problems (and in those cases, trauma was also a factor), but I’ve also known people who have done and tried everything, and the way they suffer is not something I would wish on anyone. We don’t yet fully understand how trauma, particularly long term trauma, affects the body, let alone the metabolism, nervous system, endocrine system, or even GI tract, but everything we are learning seems to point to profound effects. It seems incredible to assume that there might not be purely physiological mechanisms at work beyond the control of self-directed behavior.
In general, trauma symptoms encompass many more dysfunctional behaviors than is often understood by lay people, and while self-destructive behaviors in response to trauma or persistent C/PTSD are no less self-destructive because of their origins, describing them in moralist terms is actively harmful. It is often more accurate, and compassionate, to describe those behaviors as adaptations to stress that have become maladaptive. They are not moral failings; they are the result of bad conditioning. Put another way: if the only tools you have for internal regulation are shitty tools, you learn to depend on shitty tools to survive.
This does not make traumatized people any easier to be around or to help. You still need to draw your own boundaries, as you noted. But if you’re able to approach such people within your own acceptable boundaries with an open mind, and the willingness to point them towards trauma treatment that might actually be helpful, those conversations you’re not sure how to have might have better outcomes.
For further reading on trauma I’d recommend Van der Kolk, Levine, and others.