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Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

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Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#11
post #9

Almost every person I have ever met who hates Microsoft was either ignorant of the matters (meaning they just read what other people said and never had original thoughts) or had a specific beef in one area that they let inform their thoughts about the company as a whole. Lots of web developers, especially those who were not professional developers in the 90s see and hear this horror story of a big mean monopolist who…

Web developers don't hate Microsoft because they destroyed Netscape, they hate Microsoft because their proprietary standards and er...unqiue take on w3 standards has and continues to waste a measurable percentages of people's lives and retard the progress of the web.

ritard, in this case.

Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#12

Almost every person I have ever met who hates Microsoft was either ignorant of the matters (meaning they just read what other people said and never had original thoughts) or had a specific beef in one area that they let inform their thoughts about the company as a whole. Lots of web developers, especially those who were not professional developers in the 90s see and hear this horror story of a big mean monopolist who…

The reason I dislike Microsoft and actively avoid their platforms is largely because despite their vast resources and obvious talent, their management rarely compete head to head with technology and would rather resort to other practises that, as a tech person make me sad.

There are plenty of examples of this. See what they did to companies that wanted to ship dual-boot BeOS systems. See the approach they took to OOXML. See the approach they're currently taking to suing OEMs shipping Android handsets that refuse to pay their license fees. See the copius amounts of misinformation they put out about Linux.

A company with Microsoft's resources, I want to see competing for my business with the tech they're obviously capable of producing.

Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#13
Generally I think programmers hate Microsoft because programmers hate Microsoft. It's a self-perpetuating meme, and let's be honest, if your goal is to hate Microsoft (or any extremely large corporation) it's pretty easy to come up with reasons. Especially IE6, which is the Exxon Valdez of the programming world.

Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#14
Linux comes with Apache, Python, C/C++, Perl, AWK, sed, vi, emacs, and more.

Windows comes with Minesweeper.

When I was starting out there was no Microsoft or Linux. I got a machine that had a programming lanuage built in to it, and I could write programs.

Pretty much the first large program I wrote was a compiler to convert a subset of BASIC into Z80. It was written in its own subset, and could compile itself. I hacked into the cassette save routines, smashed the stack, bootstrapped into a machine code monitor (not even assembler) that I wrote, and I was writing games for people to play.

It's always seemed to me that Microsoft almost actively prevented me from using my own machine. I couldn't get into it without buying more. And more. I wrote my own OS that sat on top of DOS, then write a compiler for that, and suddenly I could write games again. And finance applications. And mathematical explorations.

I found some of the first Perrin pseudo-primes that way, bypassing Microsoft's systems because they prevented me from doind what I wanted with the resources I had access to.

I don't hate Microsoft, but every time I use a Windows box it fails in interesting ways, costing me time, effort, patience and occasionally yet more money.

I'll use Linux.

ADDED IN EDIT AFTER RE-READING: And I'll continue to contribute to various open-source projects.

Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#15
post #4

Because the only programmers who post on the various forums are all web programmers.

No, application programmers dislike Windows, too. For example, see the hell one of my friends went through for me recently: http://github.com/shoes/shoes/commit/95fed5e6310cb0174ba80b8...

And it's still not totally fixed.

Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#16
I'm a programmer. Going back a few years, I hate Microsoft because:

* 8.3

* 16-bit address space

* Insanely complicated and needlessly POSIX-incompatible access control lists

* Registry

* Path separator: \ vs /

* Very expensive dev tools

* MSC++ isn't C++

* Handling of Java

* Management via GUI instead of text files

* Absence of usable shell

Yes, this list is way out of date. But these are the issues chased me out of the Microsoft world into Unix, Linux and open source. The few times I've had to deal with Microsoft software more recently (e.g. ACLs), the experience has served only to renew my loathing.

Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#17
If you want an eye-opening education, go read Mini-Microsoft (including the comments). Some groups are better than others but...

The performance review system causes corporate politics and backstabbing that beggar the imagination. MS has Darwinian competitions of very similar products that result in massive waste (see Kin that should have rolled in to Windows Phone). They do not manage dependencies well, leading to excruciating effort just to check in code. And they are basically headless.

Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#18
post #9

Almost every person I have ever met who hates Microsoft was either ignorant of the matters (meaning they just read what other people said and never had original thoughts) or had a specific beef in one area that they let inform their thoughts about the company as a whole. Lots of web developers, especially those who were not professional developers in the 90s see and hear this horror story of a big mean monopolist who…

Web developers don't hate Microsoft because they destroyed Netscape, they hate Microsoft because their proprietary standards and er...unqiue take on w3 standards has and continues to waste a measurable percentages of people's lives and retard the progress of the web.

You might wish to consider that during roughly the same period IE4 came along to destroy Netscape, it was Netscape that was busy inventing proprietary tags - , , and the like.

Re: Why do programmers hate Microsoft?

#20

Almost every person I have ever met who hates Microsoft was either ignorant of the matters (meaning they just read what other people said and never had original thoughts) or had a specific beef in one area that they let inform their thoughts about the company as a whole. Lots of web developers, especially those who were not professional developers in the 90s see and hear this horror story of a big mean monopolist who…

Years ago we were writing some code involving windows telephony api. There was something wrong with one of the calls, it was not applying one of the parameters as documented in the api. Because of that we ended up dissembling it and making a binary patch to change a constant in a dll. We lost several weeks in the process. How long does it take Microsoft to fix a problem in an obscure dll that you depend on? Who knows.. This event made me realize if you are binding yourself to an operating system or any application thats is closed source, has opaque processes and almost no competition to make them improve it fast, there is good chance that one day you will end paying very dearly. I have other reasons to dislike Microsoft's attitude and practices but I gave this example because I still vividly remember the suffering and helplessness we lived that time. As for the Visual Studio comment, I used it and don't see anything special about it, If you are a Microsoft shop maybe it is good for you, otherwise, there are comparable - better IDEs out there to do the job.
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