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Apple deprecates Java

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple deprecates Java

#121

Post by slantyyz »

cosmicray wrote: post #100
alexyoung wrote: post #64

Maybe the fact WebObjects was removed from Snow Leopard Server means they don't depend on it internally as much? It seems like they've been cooling off on Java development and support over the last few years.

I believe that the current WebObjects license (while no longer having a licensing fee) stipulates that it should be run on Apple hardware. Some wags have speculated that it would be OK to run it on an Mac Pro even with Windows 7. I don't believe this is an immediate issue, but one that people doing long term planning should consider. If you want to write/run Java code, have at it. If you want to write something that…

It used to be cross platform. Back in the dotcom days, I was at a company that would sell implementations of it for Windows and Sun servers.

That was when the software price started at 50k (iirc) though. When you're charging that kind of coin, I guess the motivation to support Windows is higher.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#122

Post by jimfl »

Combine this news with the announcement of the App Store for OS X, and one possible conclusion is that Apple doesn't want Java-based apps in the app store. It's an easier prohibition to make if the JVM is not officially supported by Apple.

Also, this could be a guard move against Oracle, a capricious litigator.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#123

Post by bnastic »

masklinn wrote: post #75
rmc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

X11 is horrible on OSX. Applications that use it (e.g. The GIMP on OSX), are terrible and have many usability flaws, such as no clipboard between an X11 application and a normal application.

Yeah, OSX's X11 is utterly dreadful.

Be it as it may, but xterm/X11 still kills Terminal.app in text rendering speed. Also, MacVim is, on my Mac at least, visibly slower in text rendering than the naked vim under xterm.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#124

Post by ghurlman »

AndrewS wrote: post #93
fdb wrote: post #46

So then what's the best way to do cross-platform development? For all its faults, Java does deliver something that resembles the "write once, run anywhere" dream. Any idea for a high-performance, cross-platform, native UI development stack? Is C++/Objective-C still the best option?

Does anyone have any experience with Mono on macs?

MonoMac has been around for a little while, but MonoMac + the OSX App Store are firmly in Miguel De Icaza and team's sights:

http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/Oct-20-1.html

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#125

Post by grav1tas »

swannodette wrote: post #108
jwr wrote: post #106

That is very bad news for those of us who use Java on Mac OS X. And I don't mean UI programming, but developing server Java (or any JVM-hosted language, such as Clojure) applications.

Why? http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/Ja... The situation for Java will now be the same as that for developing in any programming language that Apple doesn't ship with OS X or that ships with a version lower than the one you are targeting. My suspicion is that Apple is likely to drop Java in 10.8 which gives ~3 years for the JVM community on OS X to get their act together making OpenJDK work…

I think stuff like this isn't really that bad for devs who use the platform. Devs (should) have the ability to pull down the replacement in this situation when the time comes. It's going to be harder on the end user that no longer gets why his/her Java application no longer works right.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#126

Post by ZeroGravitas »

jimfl wrote: post #122

Combine this news with the announcement of the App Store for OS X, and one possible conclusion is that Apple doesn't want Java-based apps in the app store. It's an easier prohibition to make if the JVM is not officially supported by Apple. Also, this could be a guard move against Oracle, a capricious litigator.

2.24 "Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, Rosetta) will be rejected"

It doesn't explicitly e.g. it, but Flash isn't installed by default either on the new MacBook Airs, so I'm guessing you can't do a wrapper around a SWF either.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#127

Post by steveklabnik »

pmjordan wrote: post #61
FooBarWidget wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which close button are you talking about and how is it inherent to GTK?

I'm guessing the close button on dockable floating windows. Is there an implementation of GTK that doesn't run via X11 on the mac? Gimp/Inkscape are lovely software on Linux, but using them on the Mac drives me insane. They're "meh" on Windows. I concluded a while back that the only decent way to do GUI programming properly was to develop multiple native frontends for the platforms you want to support. Everything els…

> Is there an implementation of GTK that doesn't run via X11 on the mac?

GTK-OSX is supposed to do this, but I haven't been able to get it working.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#128

Post by lylejohnson »

shimonamit wrote: post #10

Speculative, but could this be an early preventative measure to keep JRuby from challenging their up and coming MacRuby platform?

I don't believe that this is an attempt on Apple's part to hate on JRuby.

I am however very curious about what impact this will have on the development of JRuby and other JVM-based languages, such as Clojure and Scala. It's no secret that a lot of folks in the (J)Ruby community work on Macs, but I think that bleeds over into the other languages' communities as well. For example, I'm pretty sure Rich Hickey uses a Mac, and a tweet from Michael Fogus earlier today suggests that he does as well. Not sure about the Scala folks, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out that they're Macheads too.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#129

Post by philwelch »

nickpp wrote: post #9

Wait, I thought Oracle (Java's current owner) is Apple's friend, because of the lawsuit against Google's Android. Head spinning.

Companies aren't usually friends, but CEO's can be. Larry Ellison has repeatedly referred to Steve Jobs as his best friend, and used to serve on Apple's board.

Back when Jobs was only "interim" CEO and Apple was at least nominally looking for a permanent CEO, he and Ellison played a prank on some guy who seemed overeager to apply for the job: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9801/01/apple.oracle.reut/index.html and Jobs was the photographer at Ellison's wedding.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#130

Post by JeremyBanks »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #85
JeremyBanks wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning? I think that seems rather unlikely. To my knowledge Apple's never done anything of the sort on the desktop. On mobile platforms users are more accustomed to having restrictions in place, but if they banned Java on Mac OS the backlash would be immense.

An outright ban does indeed seem remote, but if they start to tie software installation/update/maintainance on the Mac to the Mac AppStore and ban Java apps from the AppStore, the effect on end users' ability to use Java applications is tantamount to a ban.

I hadn't thought of this in light of the App Store announcement, but apparently it's essential to do so.

From the review guidelines:

- Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, Rosetta) will be rejected

That's interesting.

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