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Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

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Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#31

Post by paulmd »

fapjacks wrote: post #13
clear_dg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Within 6 months half the worlds population would be gone. Within 6 months, a country with nuclear weapons is forced in a desperate situation. What could go wrong? Is there really a point to such a scenario between nuclear powers? It doesn't make much sense to me. The US might as well launch all its warheads from the start.

Of course, it's about plausible deniability and logistics: You can't launch your nuclear arsenal and then look deadpan at the camera and shrug your shoulders. But killing a third of the world's population with insects sounds so unbelievable that there would be skepticism even if the President held a news conference and claimed responsibility right into the microphone.

> You can't launch your nuclear arsenal and then look deadpan at the camera and shrug your shoulders

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGuhL4U2WyjdkaY/giphy.gif

Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#32

Post by logicchains »

hourislate wrote: post #5
devoply wrote: post #3

If you can make insects that can deliver viruses to save plants you can use insects to destroy food supplies of "enemies" and cause famine.

About 18-20 years ago I remember reading a thread where a poster basically said (as a counter to China) that the US has developed a blight that could basically wipe out all the rice in the world. It would be deployed via Mosquito and according to the poster had the ability to spread quickly and leave over 3 billion people without their main staple of food. Not a single shot would need to be fired. Within 6 months hal…

That betrays a basic misunderstanding of both economics and China. Firstly, rice is the staple food of _southern_ China; northern Chinese eat wheat noodles and buns as stables. Secondly, China is developed enough now that the average person is not so poor that they couldn't afford to feed themselves enough non-rice food to avoid starvation for the 6-12 months necessary for the rice to be replaced with a different crop (and for the truly poor, the government could just ration the wheat).

Look at it another way: wheat is the staple food of western countries, but how many westerners would starve to death if all the wheat products suddenly disappeared from stores? Very few, given the ample supply of rice, corn, potato and dairy-based alternatives.

Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#33

Post by [deleted] »

badminton1 wrote: post #18
pjmorris wrote: post #8

Who spends more? DARPA on weaponized insects, or The Gates Foundation on eradicating malaria by controlling mosquitos?

Malaria is the reason settler colonialism failed in Africa. If you remove malaria, Africa will be inevitably invaded by colonial settlers.

[deleted]

Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#34

Post by PJDK »

fapjacks wrote: post #13
clear_dg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Within 6 months half the worlds population would be gone. Within 6 months, a country with nuclear weapons is forced in a desperate situation. What could go wrong? Is there really a point to such a scenario between nuclear powers? It doesn't make much sense to me. The US might as well launch all its warheads from the start.

Of course, it's about plausible deniability and logistics: You can't launch your nuclear arsenal and then look deadpan at the camera and shrug your shoulders. But killing a third of the world's population with insects sounds so unbelievable that there would be skepticism even if the President held a news conference and claimed responsibility right into the microphone.

If there was a huge famine in China then the US (and the whole world) would feel obliged to pour enormous resources in to help mitigate the effects.

Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#35

Post by ashelmire »

philipkglass wrote: post #2

The same capabilities that are necessary to test defenses against chemical and biological attacks also prepare the way for offensive applications. If party A doesn't trust B, they are naturally wary of B's calls for A to halt defensive research. If B doesn't trust A, they are naturally wary that said "defensive" research is merely a precursor to or cover for weaponization. Party Z may later come along and use the res…

Your points are true for all technology. It can be used for good or evil. I work almost exclusively under DARPA grants doing NLP work - things like automated sentiment analysis might be used to detect fake news or to fabricate it. Detecting people tweeting about a need for medical supplies in some obscure language could be used to provide those supplies, or to confirm that your bomb just destroyed their stash. I think you’re correct in your assessment - the US already has all the destructive power it needs. We spend more effort today on relief or more precise strikes.

Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#36

Post by killjoywashere »

ryanhuff wrote: post #23
kleopullin wrote: post #9

Really? How many insects to genetically modify the Ukraine's wheat? I, too, wonder what they're doing. This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a buzz.

With so many crops engineered to withstand a particular herbicide like glyphosate, how likely is it that this standardization also creates a single bio profile that can be targeted?

If a bacteria gains antibiotic resistance, we declare the bug stronger and ourselves vulnerable. If we make wheat resistant to an herbicide, we declare it weaker and ourselves vulnerable.

Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#38

Post by jsoc815 »

bigmonads wrote: post #6
philipkglass wrote: post #2

The same capabilities that are necessary to test defenses against chemical and biological attacks also prepare the way for offensive applications. If party A doesn't trust B, they are naturally wary of B's calls for A to halt defensive research. If B doesn't trust A, they are naturally wary that said "defensive" research is merely a precursor to or cover for weaponization. Party Z may later come along and use the res…

Significant difference is that nuclear weapons are not deniable, bioweapons are. The United States (and allies) have already used rain seeding, river damns, and a number of other techniques for damaging adversary nation's economic and agricultural abilities. It's even a relatively common practice in geopolitics (India uses the Indus river as a carrot/stick against Pakistan).

Nukes, in the general sense, also cause massive destruction of an area and make it uninhabitable for long periods. The "targeted" use of bioweapons (in theory) allows for the clearing of people sans the mess and down time.

I'm pretty sure that that is common knowledge and openly discussed among people who care about such stuff.

Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#39

Post by fapjacks »

clear_dg wrote: post #17
fapjacks wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, it's about plausible deniability and logistics: You can't launch your nuclear arsenal and then look deadpan at the camera and shrug your shoulders. But killing a third of the world's population with insects sounds so unbelievable that there would be skepticism even if the President held a news conference and claimed responsibility right into the microphone.

Who cares about deniability or skepticism in an apocalyptic scenario as described? Do you really think cool heads would prevail if China was put in a such a situation? Chaos, and desperate people would be the result, with a nuclear arsenal in the mix. And they would, most likely, blame whoever they want, proofs and rationality be damned. Keep in mind, I don't deny that the military can find uses for what the article…

Maybe. But maybe not. Stranger things have happened in history, and they really have. I'm going to go out on a limb here with some wildly uninformed speculation, but the people running the show in the PRC aren't normies. They are people that have clawed their way to the top of a ruthless pyramid of power. Or were raised from birth by people who clawed their way to the top. Either way, they're at the top for a reason. Look at China's communist history, and you'll see a fairly consistent, running theme of systemic paranoia -- sometimes thinly-veiled, sometimes outright -- that occasionally spirals into non-trivial political purges. History is full of examples of plot twists even more bizarre-sounding than this, and I am far less certain than you are that the perceived perpetrator(s) of such a targeted depopulation event would be so clear cut to the Politburo.

All that aside and more importantly, after one really bad crop failure, the PRC will have more existential problems on its plate than who gets the blame.

Re: Darpa Is Making Insects That Can Deliver Bioweapons, Scientists Claim

#40

Post by kiliantics »

pjmorris wrote: post #8

Who spends more? DARPA on weaponized insects, or The Gates Foundation on eradicating malaria by controlling mosquitos?

It's a combined effort really. Gates is using effective PR campaigns and the help of DARPA funding to basically conduct military research on the African ecosystems under the auspices of philanthropy.

The project was not democratically demanded or organised according to the will of the people affected. The like of it sure as shit wouldn't slide in the West. But Bill Gates is one of the "Good Guys" so we are told to applaud this.

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