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Apple deprecates Java

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple deprecates Java

#111

Post by Samuel_Michon »

masklinn wrote: post #76
buster wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X" sounds pretty much like it is very likely that it will be removed.

I don't think so. It makes it sound like if that's ever a bother, they'll drop it. But right now, they probably have the deployment architecture so no reason to ever remove it. On the other hand, don't hold your breath for an OpenJDK release from Apple. In fact, that's very likely the purpose of the move: they're warning developers they will not port Java 7.

"It makes it sound like if that's ever a bother, they'll drop it."

Right, it's the same ambiguous phrasing that Apple uses to let iOS jailbreakers know that Apple isn't going to go out of its way to support them. If a future update breaks a jailbroken installation: too bad. Which isn't to say that Apple will actively work on making jailbreaking impossible.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#112

Post by funkdobiest »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #31

This could be good news for anyone who uses a Mac to work with Java. There could finally be a JDK for OS X that doesn't lag years behind official Java releases. On the other hand, the margin between Apple not supporting something and Apple banning something is incredibly narrow. Steve Jobs doesn't seem to understand the difference between choice and fragmentation very well.

I agree. As owner of some older Macs and trying to run a Java app written in Java 6 was a serious pain to get newer version of Java on a slightly older OS (10.4) Hopefully Oracle will pick up the ball with an easy installer for the Mac so we can install newer JRE's on most versions of OS X.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#113

Post by micheljansen »

meelash wrote: post #74
thought_alarm wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it just means that Apple has no interest in bringing Java 7 to OS X. It certainly took them a long time to release Java 6. Funny thing is, one of my favorite Mac apps was/is written in Java: Cyberduck FTP client. Cyberduck is an open source app originally written using the Java/Cocoa bridge, then using some hybrid of Cocoa and Java. But the thing is, the end user has absolutely no idea that it's a Java applic…

Really, that's very surprising. I'm a longtime Cyberduck user and had no idea...

I am both surprised and delighted.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#114

Post by wheaties »

fdb wrote: post #46

So then what's the best way to do cross-platform development? For all its faults, Java does deliver something that resembles the "write once, run anywhere" dream. Any idea for a high-performance, cross-platform, native UI development stack? Is C++/Objective-C still the best option?

Have you considered Python? I'm a big fan of statically typed languages but that's the one I use for all my scripting on *nix and Windows. It's used by a whole slew of web developers. Nothing stopping it from becoming the new cross-platform development language of choice.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#115

Post by micheljansen »

msy wrote: post #28

I wonder if putting the boot into the most straightforward cross-platform solution for desktop apps has anything to do with the proliferation of OSX Java apps with shoddy/un-maclike UX/UI or whether it's something to do with Oracle's recent moves.

It seems like more than a coincidence to me that this announcement is made right after Oracle absorbed Sun and made some pretty shocking announcements about their plans with Sun's open source portfolio (OpenSolaris, MySQL) and Java.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#117

Post by rbanffy »

masklinn wrote: post #99
rbanffy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clang/LLVM is BSD while GCC is GPL. That means Apple can extend them all they want without ever giving you, or their competition, any sources. If they ever perceive a threat from their competition, Clang/LLVM provides a lot more maneuvering space than GCC ever would. And yes, GCC is a very hard thing to integrate into tools and it's that way by design.

> That means Apple can extend them all they want without ever giving you, or their competition, any sources. It mostly means that they can use the libraries without having to open-source Xcode itself. A compiler is not exactly a competitive advantage for a company as big as Apple. > And yes, GCC is a very hard thing to integrate into tools and it's that way by design. Uh yes and?

> It mostly means that they can use the libraries without having to open-source Xcode itself.

LGPL would be fine for that.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#118

Post by dgabriel »

coliveira wrote: post #103
pmjordan wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI & cross-platform dev are two separate issues. Cocoa/Java has been dead for some time, and nobody who cares about design or usability seems to use Swing etc. It mainly seems to be developer tools in the Java ecosystem. I'm more worried about development of server stuff becoming more painful, particularly as Clojure, my favourite language, is (currently) JVM-based. There's obviously plenty of other JVM-based server…

> I'm more worried about development of server stuff becoming more painful, particularly as Clojure, my favourite language, is (currently) JVM-based That is what the clojure guys get for investing in a dead platform. Java as a language was dying. The sun-oracle deal means that the Java platform is also dead for open source.

Java seems to have been dying for quite a long time, if you believe the hype. I think I saw the first "Java is Dead," headline in 2002. Frankly, I doubt the language is taking a dirt nap any time soon.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#119

Post by umjames »

nileshk wrote: post #101
pmjordan wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, this will presumably affect users of Eclipse, Netbeans and similar. Not sure how many non-developer apps make use of those APIs, though, especially as they don't quite produce native look & feel. (still much better than X11, which is indeed terrible on OSX)

I think Eclipse is in a better position to handle this because it uses SWT instead of Swing. SWT is not produced by Apple, and uses native widgets (for OS X, there is both a Cocoa and Carbon version). So in theory, Eclipse could run on something like Soylatte without having to use X11. It's the Swing apps (such as Netbeans, etc) that are potentially in trouble. Apple has been maintaining their own code for Swing. If…

Or maybe they're not interested in being on the other end of an Oracle lawsuit. I don't know.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#120

Post by shortlived »

masklinn wrote: post #11
jdub wrote: post #3

Note that they've only deprecated their own Java runtime .

On the other hand, is there really any other? For years, Apple has been pretty much the sole provider, and had their very own JVM with specific look & feel customization to the UI packages. The only real alternative is Soylatte[0], which is fairly purpose-specific. [0] http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/

> The only real alternative is Soylatte[0], which is fairly purpose-specific.

What do you mean exactly by "purpose-specific"?

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