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The Awful German Language (1880)

cs.utah.edu

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Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#11

Post by schoen »

k__ wrote: post #7
mitchty wrote: post #3

Heh, its honestly not that bad of a language, and has undergone two reforms (maybe 3? I forget) since this document was created. The "awful" parts of German are in some ways its saving grace. Example: surfing is Wellenreiten, literally wave-riding or riding waves. This whole thing is all over German with compound words. Its really no different conceptually from "the old blue car" in English, its just mashed together…

To me, as a Germany, it felt rather strange that in English it isn't the same. Like, why would you add a space between two words that are meant to be read together?

One answer is parsing ambiguities.

https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/1705/w%c3%b6rter-...

(replaced with better link)

English has tons of ambiguities, including many possible parsing ambiguities of this kind, but written English would have many more ambiguities without a delimiter between words.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#12

Post by hevi_jos »

German is not that hard, specially coming from English, which is a germanic language itself.

The Michel Thomas learning audio programs are fantastic for getting a grasp of the language.

If you read and read and watch and watch TV,without analyzing what you do you get naturally the feeling of the language, without the suffering.

Mark Twain did what 99% of Germans,Austrians,Swiss are never going to do. Stop and overthink it too much.

That was probably the most reasonable way to learn German outside Germany in 1880. It is not today.

If you are interested in learning any language, I recommend the book "Fluent forever". It tells you how to start leaning a language and all the resources to learn on your own.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#13

Post by novembermike »

mishac wrote: post #5
cfallin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the compound words are really quite funny, too... two of my favorites, randomly encountered recently: gloves/mittens are "Handschuhe" (hand shoes), and a porcupine is "Stachelschwein" (spike/quill pig). Very intuitive actually!

Porcupine is the same thing, just using latinate roots rather than native English/Germanic ones.

A lot of stuff is like this. If you replace Geology with Rocklore then it sounds kind of weird but it's basically what it was in Greek.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#14

Post by pantalaimon »

novembermike wrote: post #13
mishac wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porcupine is the same thing, just using latinate roots rather than native English/Germanic ones.

A lot of stuff is like this. If you replace Geology with Rocklore then it sounds kind of weird but it's basically what it was in Greek.

See also: this old essay about "Uncleftish Beholding" (Atomic Theory) - English without the non-Germanic words.

https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=alt.language...

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#15

Post by wk_end »

k__ wrote: post #7
mitchty wrote: post #3

Heh, its honestly not that bad of a language, and has undergone two reforms (maybe 3? I forget) since this document was created. The "awful" parts of German are in some ways its saving grace. Example: surfing is Wellenreiten, literally wave-riding or riding waves. This whole thing is all over German with compound words. Its really no different conceptually from "the old blue car" in English, its just mashed together…

To me, as a Germany, it felt rather strange that in English it isn't the same. Like, why would you add a space between two words that are meant to be read together?

Oh cmon, it’s not as though German doesn’t have adjectives. Maybe we in English just use them more freely because for us they’re not a total pain in the rear to properly decline :)

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#16

Post by simonmales »

As a foreigner living and working in Germany for a number a years, reading succinct explanations of German grammar is actually quite refreshing.

Personally, grammatical concepts in English for me are quite challenging. Now try and learn a language that has complex grammar rules when you don't _actually_ know your own rules is quite imitating.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#17

Post by xae342 »

I found whipping through the grammatical logic trees in German, and exceptions, were like the grammatical equivalent of composing a Fuge, or writing a Lisp function on the spot. Eventually the elegant form of the language can be see after struggling with the details. Arthur Schnitzler’s short stories helped me see a soring elegance in the language that wasn’t obvious to me for a while after becoming fluent.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#18

Post by yorwba »

schoen wrote: post #11
k__ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, as a Germany, it felt rather strange that in English it isn't the same. Like, why would you add a space between two words that are meant to be read together?

One answer is parsing ambiguities. https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/1705/w%c3%b6rter-... (replaced with better link) English has tons of ambiguities, including many possible parsing ambiguities of this kind, but written English would have many more ambiguities without a delimiter between words.

Separating parts of compounds by spaces prevents ambiguous decompositions, but allows ambiguous groupings. (Like "Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.", which would be less confusing if "fruit flies" were written "fruitflies" or at least "fruit-flies".)

I'm not sure which is worse.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#19

Post by jacobush »

emsy wrote: post #9
mitchty wrote: post #3

Heh, its honestly not that bad of a language, and has undergone two reforms (maybe 3? I forget) since this document was created. The "awful" parts of German are in some ways its saving grace. Example: surfing is Wellenreiten, literally wave-riding or riding waves. This whole thing is all over German with compound words. Its really no different conceptually from "the old blue car" in English, its just mashed together…

Then there are also slightly funny ones -plane / Flugzeug / flight stuff -lighter / Feuerzeug / fire stuff -light bulb / Glühbirne / Glow pear -eyeball / Augapfel / Eye apple

Yes, yes, but to my ear, "zeug" feels closer to "thing" than "stuff" in these examples. That's no less funny.

Re: The Awful German Language (1880)

#20

Post by jacobush »

yorwba wrote: post #18
schoen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One answer is parsing ambiguities. https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/1705/w%c3%b6rter-... (replaced with better link) English has tons of ambiguities, including many possible parsing ambiguities of this kind, but written English would have many more ambiguities without a delimiter between words.

Separating parts of compounds by spaces prevents ambiguous decompositions, but allows ambiguous groupings. (Like "Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.", which would be less confusing if "fruit flies" were written "fruitflies" or at least "fruit-flies".) I'm not sure which is worse.

It makes for a different intended, pun, kind of?
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