How Twitter poisoned politics • Hacker News Board

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#111

Post by chasd00 » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:04 PM UTC

hnruss wrote: post #85

bliblah wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the issue; at least in the U.S. EVERYTHING is becoming more politicized no matter how inane. You are also EXPECTED to have a binary opinion on all these issues with no room for differing opinions. Look at the NFL protests during the anthem. Kneel and you are a bleeding heart liberal that hates the cops. Stand and you are a red hat conservative promoting police brutality and the Private Prison Complex.…

It's classic divide and conquer. The ultra rich have framed politics as red vs. blue, when in reality it has always been (and always will be): them vs. the rest of us.

i remember during the financial crisis thinking if only the tea party and the occupy crowd realized they were two sides to the same coin maybe something great could have happened. I feel like that dawned on the powers-that-be and the old divide and conquer technique was quickly applied; tea party turned far right, occupy turned far left and they've been fighting ever sense.

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#112

Post by vowelless » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:05 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #79

ordinaryperson wrote: post #34

Was there a time when politics wasn't full of poison? By the end Thomas Jefferson hated George Washington so much he refused to attend his funeral. And that's just 242-year history of America, you can go back to Rome, Greece or Ancient Egypt and see thousands of years of vitriol inside any large human collective. Modern tools could do a better job, sure. Twitter, FB, YouTube and the rest could use some kind of reputa…

Politics may never have been pure and things today aren't as bad as they were at certain points in human history, but I am honestly surprised that people here aren't recognizing that there has been a pretty stark change in how politics have been progressing in the last decade versus the several previous decades. The polarization has increased drastically and the civility of political discourse and faith in institutio…

It's been going bad for a few decades now :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/23/a-stu...

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#113

Post by RodericDay » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:06 PM UTC

bliblah wrote: post #80

slg wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics may never have been pure and things today aren't as bad as they were at certain points in human history, but I am honestly surprised that people here aren't recognizing that there has been a pretty stark change in how politics have been progressing in the last decade versus the several previous decades. The polarization has increased drastically and the civility of political discourse and faith in institutio…

I think this is the issue; at least in the U.S. EVERYTHING is becoming more politicized no matter how inane. You are also EXPECTED to have a binary opinion on all these issues with no room for differing opinions. Look at the NFL protests during the anthem. Kneel and you are a bleeding heart liberal that hates the cops. Stand and you are a red hat conservative promoting police brutality and the Private Prison Complex.…

>Stand and you are a red hat conservative

can you provide an example of anyone saying this?

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#114

Post by jonny_eh » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:10 PM UTC

bliblah wrote: post #80

slg wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics may never have been pure and things today aren't as bad as they were at certain points in human history, but I am honestly surprised that people here aren't recognizing that there has been a pretty stark change in how politics have been progressing in the last decade versus the several previous decades. The polarization has increased drastically and the civility of political discourse and faith in institutio…

I think this is the issue; at least in the U.S. EVERYTHING is becoming more politicized no matter how inane. You are also EXPECTED to have a binary opinion on all these issues with no room for differing opinions. Look at the NFL protests during the anthem. Kneel and you are a bleeding heart liberal that hates the cops. Stand and you are a red hat conservative promoting police brutality and the Private Prison Complex.…

Who said that standing means you're a MAGA supporter? That sounds like a straw man to me.

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#115

Post by crooked-v » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:10 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #86

eric_h wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America wasn't like this 20 years ago. 20 years ago was 1998, the year Clinton was impeached - the politics were just as slimy 20 years ago, the reality of it was just not as readily at our fingertips as it is today.

All right, lets go back just a bit further - to Watergate. The House Judiciary Committee voted to impeach Nixon. One member called his wife, said that they had voted to impeach, and then started crying . This was one of the Representatives who voted in favor of impeachment, crying (I believe) because it was a tragedy for the country as a whole that it had come to this. I can't imagine that, if the Democrats win the e…

No one in Washington would cry about Trump being impeached because Trump has done literally nothing with the Presidency that would earn respect from anyone. Even his own party sees him as little but a seat-filler who's only useful because he picks appointees along party lines.

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#116

Post by tomjen3 » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:13 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #79

ordinaryperson wrote: post #34

Was there a time when politics wasn't full of poison? By the end Thomas Jefferson hated George Washington so much he refused to attend his funeral. And that's just 242-year history of America, you can go back to Rome, Greece or Ancient Egypt and see thousands of years of vitriol inside any large human collective. Modern tools could do a better job, sure. Twitter, FB, YouTube and the rest could use some kind of reputa…

Politics may never have been pure and things today aren't as bad as they were at certain points in human history, but I am honestly surprised that people here aren't recognizing that there has been a pretty stark change in how politics have been progressing in the last decade versus the several previous decades. The polarization has increased drastically and the civility of political discourse and faith in institutio…

I am old enough to remember that the supreme court choose Bush as president -- that was an aweful moment (and would have been so if it was the other way around too). A conspiracy by one side to harm the other, that is politics.

As for civility, you can argue that but in my mind that civility ended with the candidacy of Trump. I hold the belief that civility is overrated though, I would much rather have them be honest than civil.

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#117

Post by moorhosj » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:19 PM UTC

Chinjut wrote: post #101

naravara wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how every example of "It was always this bad" involves people reaching back to before the '60s and, in some cases, before The New Deal. In most cases, reversing several decades of stability and progress would have been considered a very troubling development.

You think the examples are all before the 60s? There were some very prominent political assassinations during the 60s, Watergate happened during the 70s, etc.

The 70s were over 40 years ago.

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#118

Post by kermittd » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:19 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #34

Was there a time when politics wasn't full of poison? By the end Thomas Jefferson hated George Washington so much he refused to attend his funeral. And that's just 242-year history of America, you can go back to Rome, Greece or Ancient Egypt and see thousands of years of vitriol inside any large human collective. Modern tools could do a better job, sure. Twitter, FB, YouTube and the rest could use some kind of reputa…

Completely agree. People put to much blame on social media networks. Though I like Twitter and dislike Facebook they are not the core problem.

Great historical references as well. The Founding Fathers, though incredible people, were extremely partisan.

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#119

Post by longerthoughts » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:23 PM UTC

debaserab2 wrote: post #109

refurb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the media. They only ever cover the most extreme viewpoints. They wouldn't get clicks otherwise if an article was titled "Voter aren't sure what to make of the Supreme Court nominee". I've overheard a few conversations of my coworkers (yes, anecdote) about the whole Kavanaugh debate and pretty much every one of them was pretty common sense (e.g. not sure if I believe her, but Kavanugh certainly sounds like he…

You could take that a step further and blame media consumers then - the media promotes the stories that bring in ad revenue more than others.

Yes. Seems far more plausible that the media is a reflection of human nature than that the media has reshaped the way people think.

Re: How Twitter poisoned politics

#120

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 8:30 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #9

Part of me wonders if it's possible that there's just something about the nature of the internet that induces instability in otherwise-ordinary people. I think about photosensitive epilepsy and how it was a more-or-less benign feature of the human brain until technological progress caused flashing lights to be absolutely everywhere. I worry that I can't discount the possibility that some heretofore latent feature of…

I believe it's supernormal stimuli.[1] In short, we tend to think of quality of something and the quantity of it as distinct. In essense, communication has a good quality so we should increase it's quantity. However, over time the quantity of the good transforms it's quality. Ice cream for desert once a week or once a month is a wonderful treat. Ice cream for every meal is a depressing slog. New modes of communication tap into the primal desire of people to engage in social action, the repeated tapping of that desire however has pulled most of the good stuff and now we're getting into the ugliness that lies beneath.

[1] http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comic/supernormal-stimuli/