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The tragic end of Telltale Games

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Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#151

Post by the_af »

tapoxi wrote: post #66
nottorp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but in those you have some mechanics to use. Telltalle took the adventure game formula, which is mostly exploration and puzzles, and dumbed it down until you were left with linear exploration and kindergarten puzzles. I stopped looking at their titles ages ago because while I grew up with adventure games, the Telltale titles ain't that any more. Edit: also, games made after a movie license (or a game license, Mi…

Telltale's games since The Walking Dead became narrative focused, essentially the interactive version of a "choose-your-own-adventure" book. Personally I loved the format since I hated the cartoon logic behind a lot of adventure game puzzles, but Telltale never evolved it. Supermassive Games (Until Dawn) and Dontnod (Life is Strange) both showed that you can expand on the concept and tell interesting stories.

I also liked that TWD was narratively focused and more about dialogue and moral dilemmas than puzzles; puzzles in adventure games almost always feel artificial to me. I just wish TWD's dilemmas had resulted in more varied consequences, and of course more plot branching.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#152

Post by chaostheory »

aikah wrote: post #15

Sometimes you simply got to let the data speak for themselves: https://imgur.com/a/2tR4WVX It's so strange how the prestige around the brand was not correlated to the sells numbers. It so strange how their demise was so unexpected by the press and gaming communities when the writing was on the wall long ago.

The problem was that TellTale promised games in which your decisions actually affect the game world as opposed to just slight changes in character dialog with a game on rails. While they did improve this mechanic a little in later games, it was still too little too late. I'm pretty sure it was this that affected their sales long term. In their defense, very few games are able to actually pull this off despite their marketing.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#153

Post by notheruser »

krinchan wrote: post #118
nottorp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but in those you have some mechanics to use. Telltalle took the adventure game formula, which is mostly exploration and puzzles, and dumbed it down until you were left with linear exploration and kindergarten puzzles. I stopped looking at their titles ages ago because while I grew up with adventure games, the Telltale titles ain't that any more. Edit: also, games made after a movie license (or a game license, Mi…

They're much closer to the Visual Novel genre then the Adventure Games formula. But even than, most really good VNs that come out of Japan have branching stories. It's dependency on Anime Harem tropes and fanservice notwithstanding, many of the stories (Steins;Gate, Fate/Stay Night comes to mind) branch significantly and well beyond the "600 dead end bad endings and 1 good ending". They're well written and (again, on…

Fate Stay Night doesn't really branch. It just makes you play it 3 times for 3 different versions of the story. There's very little interactivity, it's more like an author wrote 3 drafts of the same novel where different things happen in each draft than a work of interactive fiction.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#154

Post by HBlix »

ocschwar wrote: post #97
tablethnuser wrote: post #71

Don't work in the games industry. This is the par story for game companies. Every little detail of this story I saw repeating on loop in a decade of working in games. The artists grabbing assets to stuff into their portfolios before two years of professional work disappears into a black hole, the ppl moving families across country to be laid off months later, the crunch, the over promising, it is all text book. The g…

I can't even play anymore. I've seen firsthand how the industry treats developers, and I cannot bring myself to send money into the pockets of the fratboy shitheels that run it.

The “upside” is that it’s never been easier to not play AAA games. Between derivative content rehashes yearly, insane microtransaction schemes, content cut into pieces and locked behind multiple season passes and dlc, and the endless busywork “gameplay” designed to maiximize engagement and money over time at the direct expense of fun... fuck it.

Look at the new Assassin’s Creed game, which is a reskin of Origins, plus a dozen pages of “buy this shit!” The xp system is rigged to make it a slog and a grind unless you buy “boosts” and it’s a giant map filled with what amount to chores. I feel badly for kids who grow up thinking that skinner boxes connected to a publisher’s bank account are what games have to be, but I’m not touching that stuff.

Meanwhile there are great mid-tier games, indie games, and the very occasional AAA effort that doesn’t punish the player for playing. It only really gets hard when something like CDPR makes great games that don’t monetize outrageously, but also famously treat their employees like dirt.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#155

Post by HBlix »

bitL wrote: post #142
wheelie_boy wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game dev is a meat grinder. While making games is a great way to learn programming, and is a lot of fun, the working conditions make it an untenable career choice for most.

If you are young, single and healthy, and can work on important parts of a game (engine), do it for 1-2 years, have a blast, ship an AAA game, then escape to more stable FAANG, where you will be a highly paid guru. You can even write a book or two then, documenting your tricks and achievements.

Why? You’ll come out older, less healthy, poorer, and full of regret that you spent your time building casinos for children and people with gambling issues. If you’re going to work for a FAANG anyway, at least you can sell your integrity for a much higher price and better conditions.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#156

Post by corysama »

vvanders wrote: post #141
gambiting wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a counterpoint - I've worked for 4 years now as a programmer at one of the biggest publishers in the industry, and honestly, the work life balance is great, the pay is ok for the region(plus I get decent amount of shares every year), the work is varied, interesting and I like both what I do and people I work with. I think the last time I did overtime was 2 years ago, and even then it was only for a week aroun…

Congrats, you've found the 2% of the industry that isn't insane. For many of us who fell into the other 98% the statistics aren't in your favor and some of the bigger publishers(EA, Microsoft) tend to go in ~6 year cycles. Had a friend who worked on Dead Space, which should have been a stable thing. Alas, Visceral isn't around either.

I’ve worked in games for 20 years. The way I make it work is to accept that it is insane. Have a savings cushion. Network so that finding a new job is easy. Generally, make sure you are OK if you find chains on the door tomorrow morning. Also helps to not be a morning person. Everyone but management knows that overtime is anti-productive. But, they usually only count heads after 6. Working from 10-7 keeps us both happy.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#157

Post by tenaciousDaniel »

HBlix wrote: post #154
ocschwar wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't even play anymore. I've seen firsthand how the industry treats developers, and I cannot bring myself to send money into the pockets of the fratboy shitheels that run it.

The “upside” is that it’s never been easier to not play AAA games. Between derivative content rehashes yearly, insane microtransaction schemes, content cut into pieces and locked behind multiple season passes and dlc, and the endless busywork “gameplay” designed to maiximize engagement and money over time at the direct expense of fun... fuck it. Look at the new Assassin’s Creed game, which is a reskin of Origins, plu…

Of all the stuff I've read about the new AC game, I'm really surprised no one has mentioned that it's just a reskin. It seems obvious to me.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#158

Post by bitL »

HBlix wrote: post #155
bitL wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are young, single and healthy, and can work on important parts of a game (engine), do it for 1-2 years, have a blast, ship an AAA game, then escape to more stable FAANG, where you will be a highly paid guru. You can even write a book or two then, documenting your tricks and achievements.

Why? You’ll come out older, less healthy, poorer, and full of regret that you spent your time building casinos for children and people with gambling issues. If you’re going to work for a FAANG anyway, at least you can sell your integrity for a much higher price and better conditions.

I mean only if you can work on "core", something that is extraordinarily difficult and you can impress everybody with it. I am not talking about joining a team working on end credits scrolling etc.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#159

Post by s73v3r_ »

k__ wrote: post #4

"years of nonstop crunch culture, toxic management, and frustration from developers who believed the company’s refusal to diversify gameplay had led to creative stagnation" I don't understand why the people who were let go didn't leave in the first place...

Lots of reasons. Not thinking you could find another job being one. Thinking that things will be just as bad elsewhere, so stick with the "devil you know" being another. A version of "battered spouse syndrome", but with employer instead of spouse, being a third.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#160

Post by s73v3r_ »

gerardnll wrote: post #36

I can not understand how it is legal to dismiss a worker with less than 14 days notice. Those are great workers rights! Thanks god we still have some of them here in Spain (although some have already been diminished).

In California, where the studio is based, it's not. There's a lawsuit from those who were laid off for this very thing.
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