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Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

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Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#381

Post by simion314 »

natch wrote: post #372
simion314 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m not suggesting that non-Apple repair is different, but you have to admit that a knock-off 3rd party screen is probably not going to be as reliable. And who wears the pain and anger when that screen doesn’t work? Apple. >You can’t fault them for wanting to control this stuff. If it was my company, I would. Your example with the screen would be similar to changing say a car part you are forced to go to the manufac…

A car doesn’t store all your personal private data, so your analogy doesn’t fit.

Neither a laptop, the data is in the harddrive, you can protect the drive encryption without putting software checks so if I put a "unauthorized" component the thing won't work anymore.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#382

Post by toasterlovin »

natch wrote: post #372
simion314 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m not suggesting that non-Apple repair is different, but you have to admit that a knock-off 3rd party screen is probably not going to be as reliable. And who wears the pain and anger when that screen doesn’t work? Apple. >You can’t fault them for wanting to control this stuff. If it was my company, I would. Your example with the screen would be similar to changing say a car part you are forced to go to the manufac…

A car doesn’t store all your personal private data, so your analogy doesn’t fit.

A car also starts at $15k, so a windshield being half the cost of a car is not reasonable, whereas a new screen plus labor being 1/5th the cost of a phone is.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#383

Post by toasterlovin »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #156
toasterlovin wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, there is a pretty big difference between something like a tractor, where most of the parts are simply large pieces of machined metal, and something like a computer where most of the parts are not repairable and, due to security concerns which benefit the customer , there are things like secure enclaves which may entail chain of custody concerns to be properly replaced.

If a secure enclave requires chain of custody for replacement, is it even secure? If it was possible to circumvent by replacing a hardware module, wouldn't law enforcement/(industrial or government) spies/thieves/etc. just do that?

It isn’t possible to circumvent it; it just won’t work if it’s repaired outside of a trusted chain of custody.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#384

Post by dmitrygr »

Waterluvian wrote: post #84
thinkling wrote: post #46

Back when end users could replace (upgrade) RAM and storage, I cared about keeping that flexibility. Now those are soldered to the motherboard and generally non-upgradeable from the start. This change affects “display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board”. I could see wanting an alternate, after-market keyboard, but otherwise am happy to stick with Apple p…

Requiring authorized/first party repair is manifestly bad. Consider what the automobile landscape would look like if the same were true.

You don't need to imagine it. Just look at Tesla. Lots of customers in Norway for example wait months to get service. Nobody can get parts to do even simple repairs themselves, because Tesla will not sell them.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#385

Post by nojvek »

bionoid wrote: post #293
DubiousPusher wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't normally give salty replies on HN but I have to say no. This is incorrect. > Issue is that they are lacking on employees for what they want to do. That is not the problem. The problem is many of us do not accept the world in which everything, down to the hardware we touch is just licensed to us. Some of us live to hack, crack and diy. We are jealous of the right to repair, tinker and transform.

> Some of us live to hack, crack and diy. We are jealous of the right to repair, tinker and transform. Completely off topic, but here in Norway we also have a right to reverse-engineer software if the vendor can't or won't provide what you need to complete an integration. This has been the case since the 1960s if I remember correctly, and it's still in there after revising the law this year. Ref: Åndsverkloven of 201…

The way I see it US govt won’t enact a law that makes their big businesses worse off (at-least) the current ones.

They brag about how well off the top companies are, valued at trillions and that’s their measuring stick.

But as a consumer, the govt is not for you. If you want repairability, don’t buy from Apple. There is a reason why Apple as a brand is not popular in places where they don’t have Apple stores and good support.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#386

Post by toasterlovin »

zaarn wrote: post #163
toasterlovin wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, there is a pretty big difference between something like a tractor, where most of the parts are simply large pieces of machined metal, and something like a computer where most of the parts are not repairable and, due to security concerns which benefit the customer , there are things like secure enclaves which may entail chain of custody concerns to be properly replaced.

A modern tractor isn't simply a bunch of machined metal, they have several computers on board, including integrated laptops with vendor branding, to control various equipment or the engine or many other things. Several of these parts are not repairable and need to be swapped entirely (if you want a taste of this; modern car lighting assemblies with LEDs can't have individual sections replaced, the entire assembly nee…

What you’re saying is true. What I’m saying is also true. I worked in construction for a while. The equipment is similar. Most of the repairs are fixing worn out or broken pieces of machined metal or broken or leaky hydraulic lines, not electronics.

Phones are different. Usually repairs on a phone involve replacing a piece of highly integrated electronics, not a work out or broken piece of metal or plastic.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#387

Post by kirykl »

muse900 wrote: post #169
andr wrote: post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

Totally agree, and the more I think about it, the more I feel that apple products have started becoming inaccessible to me too. From what I understand they want to protect their brand by building quality and repairing with quality as well. Issue is that they are lacking on employees for what they want to do. A week ago I was in the apple store in London, a guy next to me bought one of their new flagships through o2 a…

I dont know if its different in UK but in US the warranty is provided by Apple and the Apple Store would repair any Apple product as long as an authorized retailer sold it

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#388

Post by wlll »

tokyodude wrote: post #146

I'm actually a little disappointed in Apple's service considering the cost of their hardware and the cost of AppleCare. Back in the 80s and 90s many companies excellent service was you'd call customer support, they'd express ship you a replacement for free and you'd send back the broken item. They would take your credit card number just in case you didn't send the broken item back but otherwise it was on their dime.…

FWIW my experience has been mostly ok, there have been highlights and one pretty major let down. This comment copied from elsewhere in this comment section:

edit: I should also point out, I've never bought AppleCare.

I have had a few run-ins with Apple over the years. Mostly semi-positive. These have been where I've had to take my main work machine in for repair and they've quoted me 14 days, but then turned the repair around in a few days. They've also often thrown in unrelated free stuff too. Last time when I took my Macbook Pro in for the free screen replacement (due to delamination) they also replaced the battery (it was bulging slightly apparently, I'd not noticed) and top case (the trackpad click wasn't reliable), totally free and not required (years out of warranty).

The one case that really sticks in my mind though was when I took a 13" Macbook (pro I think) in to have the keyboard replaced (the trackpad stuck). It was a US model with a US keyboard that I'd bought off the company I used to work for, and I figured that while they were replacing the keyboard they may as well put a UK keyboard on. The Apple reps on the phone, then in store both said this was a reasonable request (as I also thought) and so I left it with them.

I get a call a day or so later saying that they couldn't do the repair because "they had to replace components like for like". Bear in mind this was a paid for repair, not under warranty. I was willing to pay for the parts and labour. Apple confirmed that the new UK keyboard would work, but they weren't allowed to repair the laptop with a different keyboard. Nothing I could do could change their mind, I'd hit a complete brick wall. No keyboards could magically fall through the cracks in the back room and no favours could be done. As reasonable a request that all involved continued to think this was, they wouldn't do anything.

They even called around local apple dealers and none of them would do it either because they were all constrained by Apple's back-office systems.

In the end I bought a genuine, brand-new top case (keyboard, trackpad, integrated battery) off eBay and did the work myself, it worked just fine. No idea where it came from originally.

I guess this shattered any remaining idea I had that Apple was anything other than a machine. The operations side made so efficient by Tim Cook is also incredibly inflexible and as soon as you stray outside the bounds of what it has accounted for you hit a wall. As friendly as the geniuses and store employees are, Apple is not your friend.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#389

Post by simion314 »

toasterlovin wrote: post #382
natch wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A car doesn’t store all your personal private data, so your analogy doesn’t fit.

A car also starts at $15k, so a windshield being half the cost of a car is not reasonable, whereas a new screen plus labor being 1/5th the cost of a phone is.

A simple example, there are 2 old Macbooks, no warrenty, one has the screen broken one the motherboard, Apple will not sell me a screen, maybe there are no more screens or if they want to sell me the screen and replace it, it could cost me half of a new laptop .

I could use the good screen from the broken laptop and give a few more years to this old laptop instead of throwing the good components to the bin. Third party repair shops have salvaged this components and they will install them to the customers, everyone wins except Apple who is not selling a new laptop or a new screen+services.

This issue happened with iPhones where changing a button bricked the phone a few months later when Apple did an update, the excuse was security but it was only an excuse, you could keep the security too, worse case scenario wipe the data but don't force people to throw old hardware because is too expensive or impossible to repair.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#390

Post by [deleted] »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #314
petepete wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I'm not prepared to have Candy Crush adverts in my Start Menu, which counts Windows out. Additionally, I know I can deactivate them by jumping through a couple of hoops, but that's not the point.

Seems like a strange hill to die on, so to speak. I can’t say I’ve ever noticed the ads in the start menu for more than a few seconds.

[deleted]
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