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The tragic end of Telltale Games

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Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#21

Post by kevingadd »

Fragoel2 wrote: post #18
aikah wrote: post #15

Sometimes you simply got to let the data speak for themselves: https://imgur.com/a/2tR4WVX It's so strange how the prestige around the brand was not correlated to the sells numbers. It so strange how their demise was so unexpected by the press and gaming communities when the writing was on the wall long ago.

Apparently making the same game over and over (with different intellectual property to tie it up) does not pay off.

The games did have significant differences, but the extensive reuse of very old technology had a big negative impact on both development costs and reviews.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#22

Post by michaf »

tpetry wrote: post #10
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #5

I don't get how there is not a general insurance system for people losing their jobs unexpectedly which pays out three months of similar or something similar.

Move to a differenz country ;) Germany has this automatically, it‘s called „Arbeitslosengeld“.

And if your employer goes bankrupt, there is an additional 3 month of guaranteed salary ("Insolvenzgeld", by the state) afaik.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#23

Post by baq »

criley2 wrote: post #19
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #5

I don't get how there is not a general insurance system for people losing their jobs unexpectedly which pays out three months of similar or something similar.

There is "Unemployment Insurance" in America, and companies have to pay into it for their employees by law. Any employee who no-fault loses their job can draw from it. This company used a "cheat" in the legal system in America for labor where they illegally labeled their employees as "independent contractors", which are treated differently under the law. These contractors aren't "employees" and aren't eligible for un…

this is also a thing in europe, with similar consequences.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#24

Post by kevingadd »

k__ wrote: post #4

"years of nonstop crunch culture, toxic management, and frustration from developers who believed the company’s refusal to diversify gameplay had led to creative stagnation" I don't understand why the people who were let go didn't leave in the first place...

If you moved to an expensive area to take a job (which many people did, some of them literally weeks before the Telltale shutdown) you're probably locked into a lease and can't just afford to ditch on short notice. Furthermore, the pay scale for game studios isn't especially generous so these people don't always have a big nest egg. Finding another gig in games is also time consuming and not something you can do on short notice.

Every time I've lined up pro work in games it's taken at least 3-6 months of up front hunting and negotiations before landing it.

fwiw I know lots of former telltale employees and interviewed there at one point. Investment in projects and in coworkers goes a long way and was definitely present there. Some of the people who did end up leading got a lot out of sticking around because the titles they shipped gave them a strong resume to point to.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#25

Post by duxup »

criley2 wrote: post #19
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #5

I don't get how there is not a general insurance system for people losing their jobs unexpectedly which pays out three months of similar or something similar.

There is "Unemployment Insurance" in America, and companies have to pay into it for their employees by law. Any employee who no-fault loses their job can draw from it. This company used a "cheat" in the legal system in America for labor where they illegally labeled their employees as "independent contractors", which are treated differently under the law. These contractors aren't "employees" and aren't eligible for un…

The employees had to have known they were contractors though.... at least in my expense that is no mystery.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#26

Post by jmull »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #5

I don't get how there is not a general insurance system for people losing their jobs unexpectedly which pays out three months of similar or something similar.

In the US, there's automatic unemployment insurance. It's run by each state and the programs differ. I believe the federal government has significant influence as well. I don't know anything about the California program but here's what looks like the relevant web site: https://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/

These people generally should be eligible (though again I don't know anything about the California program).

Edit: Oh I see a better answer to this. The other post brings up a very important point that people classified as independent contractors are not eligible.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#27

Post by kevingadd »

moreira wrote: post #3
JohnStrangeII wrote: post #2

I feel sorry for the employees and apologize in advance if what I'm going to say sounds too negative or blunt, but anyway here is one opinion. Telltale games wasn't a very innovative company. It shouldn't surprise anyone when a company goes bankrupt that primarily produces bad game adoptions of blockbuster movies as a franchise. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only a gamer and not an industry expert, but it seems to me…

Shouldn't surprise anyone, no, but "250 people would find themselves with no job, no severance, and health insurance that would be gone by month’s end — just nine days." That's appalling, and that's the real issue being discussed in the article, not the failure of the company. Horrific mismanagement of the situation, and shows a complete lack of respect for your staff.

Horrific feels like an understatement, to have the studio collapse like that on short notice without severance and insurance is basically fraud. They made promises to employees - some literally new hires - and then failed to fulfill them. They likely are also reneging on promises they made to partners and investors, all because they decided to try and skate the company along on the hope of big money coming in at the last minute. It's wildly irresponsible under any circumstances but for this to happen at a well-established studio demonstrates catastrophically bad judgement and general moral bankruptcy on the part of studio heads.

It's quite possible they could have entirely avoided this by not scaling the studio so large. 250 people is a LOT for a game studio, even one with multiple projects going. Telltale used to be much smaller and the money might not have run out.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#28

Post by 7000skeletons »

aikah wrote: post #15

Sometimes you simply got to let the data speak for themselves: https://imgur.com/a/2tR4WVX It's so strange how the prestige around the brand was not correlated to the sells numbers. It so strange how their demise was so unexpected by the press and gaming communities when the writing was on the wall long ago.

Jesus, I knew their sales had been rocky but I didn't realise HOW rocky. I guess the formula they had for games didn't really pay off across multiple instances.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#29

Post by k__ »

criley2 wrote: post #16
k__ wrote: post #4

"years of nonstop crunch culture, toxic management, and frustration from developers who believed the company’s refusal to diversify gameplay had led to creative stagnation" I don't understand why the people who were let go didn't leave in the first place...

Reading "who believed the company’s refusal to diversify gameplay had led to creative stagnation" makes me laugh. That would be like a Call of Duty developer or Assassin's Creed developer complaining that the company not diversifying the gameplay leads to stagnation. I can see from an artists perspective why that's annoying. But from an investors standpoint, if you have a profitable, winning formula, you use that for…

"Call of Duty" and "Assassin's Creed" are made by different studios and owned by big publishers I think.

Activision and Ubisoft offer different games.

Re: The tragic end of Telltale Games

#30

Post by [deleted] »

jmull wrote: post #26
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #5

I don't get how there is not a general insurance system for people losing their jobs unexpectedly which pays out three months of similar or something similar.

In the US, there's automatic unemployment insurance. It's run by each state and the programs differ. I believe the federal government has significant influence as well. I don't know anything about the California program but here's what looks like the relevant web site: https://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/ These people generally should be eligible (though again I don't know anything about the California program). Edit…

[deleted]
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